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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

NAMA Project Eagle and Arrow allegations

Summary

Mick Wallace presses the Taoiseach over NAMA’s handling of alleged £5 million payments connected to Frank Cushnahan, the Project Eagle transaction, and the proposed sale of Project Arrow, arguing that investigations and housing needs warrant suspending the sale. The Taoiseach says investigations are ongoing, defends NAMA’s responses, and repeatedly urges Wallace to bring his allegations to the Committee of Public Accounts; several Deputies and the Chair intervene as the exchange becomes disorderly.

The majority of Irish people no longer have confidence in NAMA. Yesterday, I asked An Garda Síochána to investigate, under section 19 of the Criminal Justice Act, why NAMA did not report the discovery that US investment fund PIMCO had been requested to pay £5 million to a former member of the NAMA Northern Ireland Advisory Committee, Mr. Frank Cushnahan. Despite this, NAMA told the Committee of Public Accounts on 9 July that if PIMCO did not withdraw, NAMA could not permit it to remain in the sales process, yet it refused to report the matter to the relevant authorities.

For the life of me, I do not understand how the Government can still be comfortable with the idea of NAMA selling Project Arrow to Cerberus. Cerberus is under criminal investigation in the United Kingdom and United States. When I queried NAMA on this issue last week, Mr. Frank Daly replied to me, "I am not aware that Cerberus is under criminal investigation in any jurisdiction". The same Mr. Daly admitted to the Committee of Public Accounts in July that the purchase of Project Eagle was being investigated but now he is not aware that the actual purchaser, Cerberus, is being investigated. Is it not little wonder that the people have serious questions about NAMA? They would like the Taoiseach to initiate a commission of inquiry.

Aside from the investigation by the National Crime Agency in the United Kingdom, in the United States the Department of Justice is investigating the role of American companies in the Project Eagle transactions. The investigation involves the Attorney General's office in New York, the New York office of the FBI and the US Securities and Exchange Commission, yet NAMA believes Cerberus is not being investigated.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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Can the Taoiseach explain that to me? He might remind his friend Mr. Daly that these boys in America are not in the wedding planning business.

Will the Taoiseach do this country a service and suspend the sale of Project Arrow, now rather than later? A serious amount of assets, over half of which are residential, are in the Republic. God knows, we could do with them to address the housing crisis. They will be sold for a fraction of what it will cost NAMA to build units. The agency is saying it will cost €225,000 to build each of the 20,000 units. The assets in Project Arrow will be sold for a pittance. The Taoiseach should freeze the sale now. Under no circumstances is it a legal process given that Cerberus is under criminal investigation.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I have reminded Deputy Wallace before that there are a number of investigations ongoing in regard to this matter. NAMA has appeared before the Committee of Public Accounts on several occasions. The matter has been discussed on at least three occasions. The Deputy himself was invited to appear before the Committee of Public Accounts and, for his own reasons, has refused to do so. I have said to him before that I acknowledge he is properly elected to the Dáil and has the rights and privileges that go with that but he should go before the Committee of Public Accounts. He was invited to do so by the Chairman, Deputy John McGuinness. If Deputy Wallace has further information, or other information, the committee is the place for him to give it. It is through the Committee of Public Accounts that NAMA is responsible to the Oireachtas.

The question of the American company that withdrew was made clear. The Deputy said on the last occasion that I was involved in a cover-up myself over this. He now tells me that I am a friend of Mr. Daly. He makes these allegations without any foundation or backup. If he has something to say, I advise him to say it to the Committee of Public Accounts, which is the duly elected and appointed body in which to do such business in here.

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The Taoiseach is giving out about me not going before the Committee of Public Accounts, but he does not seem to have any problem with Mr. Daly misleading the same committee. I have gone to the Garda, I have been interviewed by the National Crime Agency and I have offered to go to New York. I do not actually believe the Taoiseach could possibly try to make out that the Committee of Public Accounts has more teeth than those three organisations. Last week, I asked NAMA how it could have allowed-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy. This is Leaders' Questions; it is not an interrogation and it is not a question of making allegations. We are taking questions to An Taoiseach. If the Deputy has questions, he should please put them.

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Last week, I asked NAMA how it could have allowed the Project Eagle transaction to proceed knowing that Brown Rudnick and Tughans were involved, given that the same players were involved in the PIMCO deal in which the fixtures fee of £5 million had been sought for Mr. Frank Cushnahan. When I asked NAMA about this, Mr. Frank Daly replied, "Our advice is that such fee payments are not illegal". Could the Taoiseach confirm for me who NAMA received the advice from? Did that advice cover the laws of the United States and the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland? If NAMA was so sure this was not illegal, why did its board decide that if PIMCO, one of the largest investment funds in the world, did not withdraw from the process, NAMA would force it out? How could it possibly have decided this if everything was rosy in the garden? Can the Taoiseach explain that to me?

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The Taoiseach should answer the questions.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As I said, the Deputy has already made allegations here that I was involved in a cover-up about this.

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The Taoiseach did not answer the question.

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The Taoiseach does not care-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I would like him to address that.

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This is Leaders' Questions, a Cheann Comhairle.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Hold on a second.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy did not refer to the very detailed, strong and clear response Mr. Daly gave to his allegations in this matter. He chose not to refer to that at all.

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The Taoiseach has not answered the question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I repeat for Deputy Wallace that every time he comes in here, he comes with very specific allegations.

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And every time the Taoiseach refuses to answer any questions.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am saying to Deputy Wallace that the appropriate place for him-----

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There is no argument about the fees.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to make his allegations and to have NAMA respond to the Committee of Public Accounts is at the Committee of Public Accounts.

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There is money in an offshore account.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

For everybody's sake, in respect of all those people who are giving him pieces of information-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----which they are entitled to do, will he bring his allegations before the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts and its members? NAMA is duty bound to respond-----

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It has not responded so far.

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It does not want to answer questions.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to that body in reference to the Oireachtas. I ask the Deputy please to take up the invitation to him.

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The Taoiseach does not want the truth.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He has refused three times to go before that committee.

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The Taoiseach is stonewalling.

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The Deputy just takes people's good name.

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