Eurozone contingency claims
Pearse Doherty challenged the Taoiseach’s repeated claim that the Central Bank Governor warned of possible troops at ATMs, money printing and capital controls. The Taoiseach defended confidential contingency planning during the euro crisis, but did not directly confirm the alleged warning; Doherty accused him of misleading the Dáil and others.
On three separate occasions the Taoiseach has claimed the Government was on the brink of deploying troops onto the streets and introducing capital controls. He told a Fine Gael fund-raiser in October, "The head of the Central Bank came in on a Wednesday and said, I have to tell you Taoiseach that it is probably likely that you will have to put the Army around the ATM machines on Friday. We may well have to print money. We may well have to introduce capital controls." On 20 October the Taoiseach told the Dáil a similar story. Two days later he repeated this tall tale to a meeting of the European People's Party in Madrid. We all know that there were contingency plans in place. We have read about them in Pat Leahy's book, The Price of Power - Inside Ireland's Crisis Coalition, while the banking inquiry was told by the former Secretary General of the Department of Finance that they were developed before the Taoiseach's time in office and continued to be developed during his time. However, what the Taoiseach is claiming is something very different. Both inside and outside this Chamber, he is claiming that, in the estimation of the Governor of the Central Bank, a moment had come when he thought it necessary to suggest to the Taoiseach that he should put these plans into action. The Taoiseach has given the impression that somehow within 48 hours, he had thwarted disaster and saved us all from catastrophe. Before we start erecting statues to his glory, will he finally clarify some matters for the Dáil and citizens? What was the event that led Professor Honohan on that Wednesday to suggest to the Taoiseach that he should deploy troops on the streets of the State on that Friday? What week is the Taoiseach talking about and how was this issue resolved?
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I note the Deputy's comment about fund-raisers. It shows the extent of the priority that his leader and deputy leader attach to this House that they decide to exit to the United States for a fund-raiser which is very much in excess of anything I might have attended myself.
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The Irish diaspora. We will have to copy these lads.
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There will be no statues to my glory or otherwise. If that is where the Deputy's interest lies I ask him not to talk to me, please.
I am happy to outline the context in which all of this happens. The reality, as the Deputy well knows, is that for a prolonged period in 2011 and 2012 there was massive instability in the eurozone with the economic circumstances that applied in a number of countries. People were openly questioning whether the currency would survive in its current form. That is why I make no apology to anybody for putting in place, as head of Government, with the agencies of Government, contingency plans to deal with the possibility of a total collapse of the euro currency.
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That is not how the Taoiseach presented it in Madrid. He presented it as a national issue in Madrid.
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It would have been grossly irresponsible and negligent of the Government not to have done so in the face of clear warnings and signs of being blocked from capital markets, money moving out the country and so on. It was not appropriate to make any of the contingency plans that were being put in place public at that time, for very good reasons. Even today it is not appropriate to provide the details. Those continency plans----
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He will provide all the details in Madrid, he will tell all in Madrid.
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Hold on. It is none of your business, Deputy Kelleher. It is Deputy Doherty's question, not yours. Settle down and do not be getting blood pressure.
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We all get the impression, a Cheann Comhairle----
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Give the Taoiseach a chance lads, he is digging away.
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As everybody knows, as a small open economy we are dependent upon exports and imports and we would have been particularly vulnerable to a break-up of the euro. Those contingency plans covered policy issues, including legislation, logistics, security, the role of the banking sector, international relations and communication to the public.
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Emergency structures to manage that crisis, to be overseen by Government, were designed and designed very carefully and would have been activated if necessary. That work was carried on in secret by a small number of officials from the Department of Finance, the Department of the Taoiseach, the Central Bank and the National Treasury Management Agency. Given the scale of what might have happened, which I am thankful did not happen, the full resources of the State would have been mobilised, including the Garda and the Defence Forces. It is always clear that in the change from one currency to another currency, or in a changed currency, these issues, including capital controls, are always discussed. It would have been necessary to pass emergency legislation providing exceptional powers to the local authorities.
While it is not appropriate to give the details of the contingency plans, the issues considered would have clearly dealt with producing, supplying and circulating a new currency, supplying essential supplies of fuel, electricity and medicines and so on - the normal running of any country. It was absolutely appropriate that those discussions around those contingency plans took place. At the end of all of that, had it happened it could have happened very quickly. As the Governor of the Central Bank said, we do not talk about the details of discussions that took place here but there were those discussions that took place between the Department of Finance, the Department of the Taoiseach, the Central Bank and the NTMA about very serious indications that it might have been necessary to introduce those contingency plans. I am glad it did not happen and we are now in a very different spot from those days of early 2011 and 2012.
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I asked the Taoiseach a direct question and he has been waffling about contingency plans. I made the point that it is not about the contingency plans. We already know that such plans were drafted. We questioned Professor Honohan on the contingency plans at the banking inquiry. The specific question is the Taoiseach's claims, made at Fine Gael fund-raisers, at his colleagues' meeting of the EPP and in the Dáil on 20 October, that the Governor of the Central Bank, somebody who sits on the General Council of the ECB, came to the Taoiseach on a Wednesday and told him of the need to execute this plan on the Friday. The Governor of the Central Bank has said that any discussions of a contingency plan were in the context of the breakup of the euro.
It is important that the Taoiseach clarifies the statements he made on three occasions in the last month. Did the Governor of the Central Bank, Professor Patrick Honohan, walk into the Taoiseach's office, as the Taoiseach claims, on a Wednesday and say that the Army needed to be deployed on the Friday? Did he say to the Taoiseach that he believed the euro was about to break up, or was this a fantasy of the Taoiseach? Was there a dose of reality in these conversations or in what the Taoiseach was saying at the Fine Gael fund-raisers, at the EPP and to the Dáil? Does the Taoiseach believe he needs to correct the record of this House? Did this conversation happen?
It is not about the contingency plan. I ask the Taoiseach not to insult my intelligence by referring to contingency plans and the need to have them in place. The question is very clear. The Taoiseach makes the claim that Professor Honohan said to him on a Wednesday that he would need to deploy the Army on the Friday and introduce capital controls. I sit on the banking inquiry. The State has spent close to €5 million getting to the guts of what happened in the crash and also examining the policy responses and the aftermath of what happened when trying to restore the credibility of our banking sector. It is crucially important that the Taoiseach clarifies the situation. Were we within 48 hours, as he claims, of seeing the break-up of the euro and introducing a new currency in the State?
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Maybe Deputy Doherty did not listen to me in the House. What I did say was that the context of these discussions took place against a background where there was a very serious set of economic circumstances applying right through 2011 and 2012. The discussions that took place within those circumstances warranted putting in place a strategy that would deal with an eventuality where the euro might collapse. Those discussions took place on a number of occasions and the participants in those discussions were officials from the Department of the Taoiseach, the Department of Finance, the NTMA and the Central Bank. We referred to that in the past. That is where the discussions took place and against that background. As I say, I make no apology for having to deal with the clear warning signs that were there about the economic collapse and the collapse of the euro.
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Did the Governor issue the warning? That is the question.
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Those contingency plans, as I said, covered all of those issues. There was a possibility of an abrupt change from the currency of the euro in its current form to something else and consideration of what the Government would have to do and might have to do in terms of legislation, security, logistics, and all of these issues that affect the normal running of any country. It is in that context that those discussions took place. They were the participants that took part in them and, as the Governor himself has commented on this quite recently----
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He was spoofing. Professor Honohan never said this to him. He has misled the Dáil, the EPP and the people who are contributing to Fine Gael.
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They will bring Deputy Doherty to America next year. They will bring him home a stick of rock.