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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Hospital patients on trolleys

Summary

Gerry Adams condemns record levels of hospital overcrowding, including nearly 8,000 patients on trolleys in October and about 300 that morning, and accuses the Government of undermining public healthcare. The Taoiseach rejects any plan to abandon public provision, cites additional funding, staff and beds, and says management reforms should improve the situation.

It would be very useful to know what law prevents the Taoiseach from commenting on these issues, and I sincerely hope he is authorised to speak on the issue I will raise with him. Last month was the worst October on record for the number of citizens on trolleys in our hospitals. The number was almost 8,000 people including, infamously, a 91-year-old patient who spent 29 hours on a trolley. In the first ten months of this year, almost 80,000 people, which is the population of a small town, were on trolleys, which is the highest ever figure for the first ten months of any year since trolley watch began. According to the INMO, for the 15th month in a row, October 2015 saw an increase in the level of overcrowding in emergency departments.

In Dundalk, 25 year old Dualtagh Donnelly bled to death while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, despite the fact that his family home is only five minutes from the Dundalk ambulance station and five minutes from Louth County Hospital where the accident and emergency department was closed. His mother, Oonagh, said she felt her son died because of politicians' promises. Does the Taoiseach agree with the president of the Irish Hospital Consultants Association, Dr. Gerard Crotty, who said the cause of accident and emergency overcrowding is a lack of capacity because not enough money has been allocated to deal with it? Will he acknowledge that the public health system requires much greater investment by the Government to deal with the crisis?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The public health system also requires much greater levels of management and the use of resources of taxpayers' money. This morning's count at 8 a.m. saw 300 patients waiting on trolleys, according to the report from TrolleyGAR, which does this every day. Last night at 8 p.m. some 152 patients were waiting on trolleys and at 8 a.m. yesterday morning, Tuesday, 10 November, 320 people were waiting on trolleys. As the Deputy knows, the number always declines during the course of the day.

The Minister for Health convened the emergency department task force in December last year to provide a real focus and momentum in dealing with the challenges presented by emergency department overcrowding, for which there are many reasons. Good progress was made in the implementation of this task force's recommendations. Delayed discharges have reduced steadily, from 830 last December to 567 on 3 November this year, which frees up approximately 265 beds to be used by acutely ill patients every day. The average number of patients waiting for greater than nine hours on trolleys in October was 115, down from 173 in February before that.

Waiting times for nursing home support scheme funding has reduced from 11 weeks to three to four weeks. As the Deputy will recall, we were told before that if we put money into this it would alleviate the problem. It has not done so despite a serious reduction in the waiting time. Transitional care funding has continued to support 3,000 approvals, which is very much above the original target of 500, some 1,200 additional home care packages will have been provided by the end of this year, and 173 additional nursing home beds and 65 short stay beds are now open. In addition to this, €117 million extra has been provided in 2015 to help relieve pressure on acute hospitals.

I would be the first to say this is not the way I would like it to be, but clearly the request for resources, extra capacity and extra staff have all been met in part by the Minister, the Department and the HSE. In April this year, €74 million was allocated to reduce delayed discharges and lower the waiting times for the fair deal scheme as well as providing additional transitional beds, and €18 million has been allocated to support acute hospital systems over the winter by providing additional bed capacity to deal with these very problems. This additional funding has come on top of measures already taken when the Government provided the €5 million to deal with these acute hospitals. For the winter capacity, the hospital groups have all provided particular plans for each of the hospitals in the groups in respect of what they propose to do and how they propose to implement an integrated approach across primary, community, social and acute services to manage winter pressures, the scale of which we do not know yet because of what may occur with the weather and particular 'flus.

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I asked the Taoiseach to acknowledge that the public health system requires much greater investment. He ignored this. His response was peppered with saying this is not the way he would want it to be, that the Minister has dealt with these demands in part and that we need much greater levels of management. Then, without a sense of shame or embarrassment, he announced that today 300 citizens of the State are on trolleys. What sort of a Taoiseach is he that he can stand there like a commentator and give us this figure? It is the case that 300 citizens are on trolleys as a direct result of Government policy. It is not an accident, but a direct result of what the Government is doing.

Last week, the Minister of Health said that CEOs of hospital groups should be allowed to transfer moneys from hospitals to private providers. He went on to say that hospital groups should be able to conduct business in the manner of semi-State companies "outside the constraints of public service rules". These are shocking and revealing comments, which highlight the ideological position of the Government which seeks ultimately to privatise our health services and leave patients at the mercy of a profit margin.

The silence of the Labour Party in the wake of the Thatcherite proposals from the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, is notable.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Do you have a question, please?

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I am almost finished.

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

Do not say anything about-----

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There is Eric the red.

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

I have never heard as much-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Byrne, please.

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Deputy Byrne comes in from the side all the time.

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Eric the red has been very quiet.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Please proceed. We are over time.

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He has no shame whatever about the record of his party.

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Eric J. Byrne Deputy Eric Byrne Labour Party

They are still looking for the bodies.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Byrne, please.

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Will the Taoiseach accept that the comments of his Minister for Health, along with the policy of the Government, have fundamentally undermined the public health system? Is it not time for the Taoiseach to stand up and admit that the Minister let the cat out of the bag and that the long-term plan of the Government is to abandon the public ownership model of health care?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I disagree completely with the last sentiment expressed by the Deputy. He asked what kind of Taoiseach I am. People will judge that in due course. I was given the responsibility and honour of leading a Government to take this country out of an economic mess we inherited, to restore our public finances and create an economic engine that can deal with the many issues-----

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There are 300 people on trolleys today.

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We would all be on trolleys if the Deputy's party was in there.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Deputy made his point.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----in the social area and the health area. At least Deputy Adams is getting the truth as of this morning, and I gave it to him yesterday morning and indicated the reduction in numbers yesterday evening. I pointed out to the Deputy the delayed discharges, the moneys allocated for fair deal, the extra numbers employed in the health service and the extra beds that have been opened. Clearly, the health situation-----

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Not in Beaumont.

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There is a long list.

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What about those who do not even have a trolley?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----in a country with an ageing population is always challenging.

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There are thousands of people on waiting lists.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In excess of €13 billion of public money is going into the system. There are some very good things happening in health and some that are not so good.

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What about the Minister for Health's remarks?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This is a real challenge every day and I commend those who work on the front line. Last week we had a question about a 91 year old who spent 29 hours on a trolley. That is unacceptable under any circumstances.

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It is happening on the Taoiseach's watch.

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It is happening every day.

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Do something about it.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

When I say this, I am told I am a commentator. We try to provide the resources for the professional staff to do their job, with extra staff, beds and public money, along with proper management of the systems. The chief executive of the HSE has visited all the hospitals with particular problems. I hope that the plan put in place by the Minister-----

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It is not improving.

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The Taoiseach should go to Beaumont.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----will now bear fruit for the future.

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What happens in America?

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Deputy Adams will not be on a trolley anyway.

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