For some months we have been pointing out that Irish families with variable rate mortgages are being charged 2% more than their European counterparts. For example, on an average mortgage of €200,000, they are paying €4,000 more than somebody living in France or Germany. We have called repeatedly on the Government and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, to get the banks to reduce these rates but, unfortunately, to no avail. Other than AIB which dropped its rates by 0.75%, no other bank has reduced its standard variable rate mortgage. The banks' response has been as inadequate as that of the Government. The mantra from the Minister is that competition will fix it. He has encouraged people to switch banks, but competition alone will not solve this ongoing crisis. Only 712 mortgage customers switched banks in 2015, allegedly from a pool of 100,000. That in itself represents the weak, competitive nature of the mortgage market in Ireland and also illustrates that the Government is suggesting a solution that it knows is not working. Even the Central Bank accepts that there is a problem, while the Minister has washed his hands of the matter. That is unfair and unjust on families who are paying €4,000 more per year than their European counterparts. He said he wanted to wait and see if competition between the banks would decrease the rates offered. Obviously, that wait and see approach is not working and I contend it will not work. It is even harder to stomach when people read that the Exchequer is enjoying unprecedented profitability, with various windfalls, while families are struggling to pay this extra €4,000 on top of what should be their normal mortgage repayments. Does the Tánaiste believe it is fair that banks are charging Irish customers a rate that is up to 2% higher, or €4,000 more per year, on their variable standard rate mortgages? Does she agree with the Central Bank that this is a major problem? Can she honestly say she agrees with the wait and see approach to the issue adopted by Government for close on 12 months?

What I think is unfair on Irish families is that five years ago yesterday Fianna Fáil brought the troika into Ireland-----

Back on message.

-----and delivered desperate circumstances to many families across the country.

Change the record.

Order, please.

I say to Deputy Barry Cowen-----

The Tánaiste has been in government for five years.

We cannot hear what is going on.

Children, stop.

The Members opposite will be going in with them.

I ask Members to, please, listen to the Tánaiste.

I agree with Deputy Barry Cowen that it has been a very difficult and long road for many Irish families. Those families who bought in the year or two before the crash generally had the benefit of tracker mortgages. In terms of what happened to the banks-----

They went bust, Joan.

-----as we know, the banks were basically-----

Bust and they are still.

Please, Deputy.

They were broken by the failure of the former Taoiseach and his Minister for Finance to take any action to safeguard them.

What did you do?

I said-----

You said a lot but did nothing.

Through the Chair, please, Deputy.

Cleaning up the mess.

When I appeared before the banking inquiry, I laid out what I had said and done. I gave very good advice to people. It is in everybody's interests that we have banks that are working.

What is the Tánaiste going to do about the people with variable rate mortgages?

Deputy Barry Cowen spoke about people moving their mortgages from one bank to another, but what he did not address - I do not know if he is familiar with this - was the fact that for a number of years many banks offered customers deals with improved interest rates. I do not know whether the Deputy is recommending that people should consider or take these deals-----

Will the Tánaiste share that information with us please?

They are advertised by all of the banks, particularly the two larger banking institutions where various deals have been negotiated. I am sure at a constituency level the Deputy must have dealt with people who have been exploring these deals and seeking advice on them. For many, it may not be the interest rate reduction to the level the Deputy is talking about, but many of the offerings would result in people's overall payments being reduced. The Deputy must have seen these deals being advertised by many of the banks.

Will the Tánaiste share this information with the rest of the country? Is she telling me a 2% reduction is available?

Please, Deputy, the Tánaiste has the floor.

Furthermore, as Deputy Barry Cowen knows, where people have issues and cannot cope with their mortgage repayments, we have a series of structures which we established-----

Yes, the courts. We know what they are - repossessions.

-----including the Insolvency Service of Ireland and so on. However, I assume Deputy Barry Cowen is talking about people who are paying their mortgage but want a better deal on the interest rate charged.

They deserve a better deal.

The Deputy's suggestion is that they switch mortgage provider. As he pointed out correctly, not many people have availed of mortgage switching-----

It costs money.

-----but it is important that people seek better deals which have been and are available from a number of banks in changing terms over a period of years.

Last May the Tánaiste stated:

[Banks] would be extremely wise to consider their corporate responsibility in relation to people on variable rate mortgages. If the banks simply can't recognise they have some obligation to people in Ireland in the context of the bailout that they've enjoyed, there are other avenues to address this.

What was the Tánaiste saying? Is she informing the House and, by extension, the people that there is some secret deal among some of the banks that are offering rates of 2% less?

No.

We must face the facts. Last May, when the Tánaiste came out with her spin and empathy, at which she is very competent, as we saw in the shadow boxing associated with the rent and housing issue in recent weeks-----

There is some shadow-boxing going on over there too.

If Deputy Durkan does not mind-----

Let us hear the Deputy, please.

Does the Tánaiste still realise or has she forgotten? Does she want to refer to the previous Government in every answer she gives in this Chamber?

It will be a long time before the people forget.

Does she realise that the rate is two percentage points above the European average?

It is twice the European average.

I remind the Tánaiste that her former leader and predecessor-----

Remember him.

-----came into this House after a summit in June 2012 and said there was a game changer-----

And it was.

-----that he and the Taoiseach had achieved at a European summit when there would be-----

Speaking of games-----

-----retrospective bank recapitalisation.

I thank the Deputy.

The Government abandoned that trick last Christmas and it moved on to talk about selling AIB which would realise a profit because it is making money again. Why is it making money? It is because it is charging two percentage points above the European average. That is what the Government is standing over and that is what it will be judged on.

A question please, Deputy.

The Tánaiste can say all she likes, but her initial response to me was more of the Tesco advertisement material that Labour is preparing for the next election.

For a party that announced to the national media-----

It is twice the European average.

The Tánaiste has the floor.

-----that it is not in the game at all and will not even be involved in government-----

They are crying their eyes out in Sinn Féin already.

-----it was a fitting announcement on the fifth anniversary of Fianna Fáil bringing the troika into Ireland-----

Here we go again.

-----that it has said, "And by the way, lads, we're taking our ball-----

Heads go back five years. The Government parties will not win the general election with that carry-on.

-----and we're leaving the field".

The Tánaiste has the floor.

Fianna Fáil's strategy spokesperson said-----

Government Members will be judged on their own performance.

-----"We're taking the ball lads and we're leaving the field".

Sorry, Deputies, we cannot have this carry-on.

The Labour Party is at 7%.

Deputy Kelleher-----

Is the Deputy asking me to respect a party-----

I ask Deputy Kelleher to lower the-----

-----which claims to be a vital force in Irish politics but says it will not be in government-----

She should respect the people who have been ripped off by the banks.

-----and it is not running to be in government?

Will the Tánaiste please respond to the question, which is that people are paying two percentage points above the European average?

Please-----

And-----

We cannot-----

What has the Government done about it? Sweet FA.

Labour will not even be in the Dáil, let alone in government.

We cannot hear what is going on. The Tánaiste to resume.

What we have done in government is that we have-----

Seven percent.

-----nearly 2 million people at work, including many of the people-----

With all due respect, I did not ask her about that.

The Deputy does not want to hear it, does he?

The Deputy does not want to hear it.

With all due respect, a Leas Cheann Comhairle-----

Please-----

-----would the Tánaiste for once answer a question she was asked?

If we lower the noise level, we might get some answers.

Order, please, from everybody.

The Deputy is obviously not interested in any answers.

No, the Tánaiste is not interested in answering the question.

Deputy Cowen, please.

He should behave himself.

Listen, Barry, anger is not a policy.

It got used for five years.

It has Labour at 7%.

Anger is not a policy and if Deputy Cowen is interested rather than trying to make some hay and cheap political capital out of people in mortgage difficulties, he should actually address the issue.

Blame is not a policy either.

There are enough histrionics-----

The Tánaiste does not do histrionics.

-----from Deputy Cowen now to fill the Abbey Theatre any night.

The Tánaiste to conclude now, please.

So he should just lay off. His colleague beside him has said-----

The Tánaiste sat over there for 14 years.

She loves the blame game.

-----Fianna Fáil is taking the ball and walking off the pitch. It will not be involved in government, so what are we to believe about any contribution Fianna Fáil Deputies try to make?

What about the people who are paying two percentage points above the European average?

The game changer is a blame game changer.

What are we supposed to believe?

Would the Tánaiste like to address the question?

If the Deputy is gracious enough to give me the opportunity to address it, of course I will address it.

Eventually, thank you.

Eventually, after the Deputy's histrionics.

There is a time limit on all sides.

Will the Deputy lay off the histrionics?

Will the Tánaiste answer the question?

The Tánaiste is the queen of histrionics.

It is not for me; it is for the people who are paying-----

If he wants an answer, he just has to shut up for a while and listen to the answer.

I thank the Tánaiste. The time has-----

The Leas Cheann Comhairle should ask the Tánaiste to withdraw that.

I call Deputy McDonald. Order, please.

The Tánaiste did not answer, by the way.