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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

IBRC inquiry and Siteserv terms of reference

Summary

Deputy Gerry Adams demands accountability for the IBRC and Siteserv transactions, asking the Taoiseach to publish the terms of reference and Attorney General’s advice, correct alleged omissions, and complete the inquiry before the election. The Taoiseach says the Government is seeking a transparent, comprehensive and accountable process, will consider party responses next week, but refuses to publish the legal advice.

Making a mess of the big issues of Government has become the Taoiseach's speciality.

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They made a mess of that.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Would the Deputy please keep his mouth closed for five minutes?

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I often wonder to myself and cogitate why this is so. The First Interim Report of the Commission of Investigation into Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC, from Mr. Justice Brian Cregan makes it clear that the commission's terms of reference, prepared on the Taoiseach's watch and signed off by him, are an absolute and utter shambles. This has been a hallmark of his Government. Look at the calamity in the accident and emergency departments which has become so severe that the INMO and nurses in emergency departments have been forced into industrial action. Look at the utter chaos of 5,000 women, men and children living in emergency accommodation. These scandals are not only because of the incompetence of the Government, although undoubtedly that is a fact. It is not only because of the Taoiseach's reliance on half-actions and spin. Let us be straight about this. It is because the Government is against a universal health service, it is because it is against the State making provision of social and affordable housing and it is because it is against holding the golden circles to account. That is why the Taoiseach made a mess of the commission of investigation's terms of reference and dismissed Sinn Féin's amendments and suggestions. That is why the Taoiseach blocked and stonewalled any effort to bring transparency to the actions and transactions undertaken by the IBRC-----

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Deputy Adams can block anything he likes.

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-----and billions of taxpayers' money was written off or found its way into the deep pockets of the elite. This is money that could have been invested in social housing. This is money that could have been invested in the health services.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

A question, please.

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However, as I said, the Taoiseach and the Government have no real interest in shining a light on the IBRC transactions. We got a letter-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputy Adams is over time.

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-----from the Taoiseach, in which he asked the Opposition parties for their views on new terms of reference and which I responded to last evening. Will the Taoiseach now accept responsibility for this mess, will he publish the terms of reference that were brought forward by the Attorney General and approved by the Taoiseach, and will he at least belatedly try and unravel a mess which is entirely of his own making?

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Another cock-up.

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Bernard Durkan Deputy Bernard J. Durkan Fine Gael

Deputy Finian McGrath should know.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Deputies should not be smart.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Adams has circled all the issues today. It is not his usual specific attack.

He mentioned that the Government has failed to deal with the big issues-----

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Like the economy.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----such as fixing the economic mess that we inherited, putting our people back to work, and the situation where the rate of unemployment has gone from 15.2% to 8.9% and is heading downwards.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We had a situation where this crowd locked us out from all the markets and the interest rates where 15%, and now they are less than 2%.

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A Deputy

Take the rod out of teaching-----

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I will not ask Deputy Mattie McGrath again. He will be out that door as fast as he can go, I promise him.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan's, intention, on behalf of the Government, is to have the deficit wiped out by 2018. The national debt is falling rapidly towards European norms and by the way, for the information of Deputy Adams, 130,000 jobs have been created in the private sector. These are the big issues that Deputy Adams says the Government has failed on.

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Will the Taoiseach answer the question?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

However, we are not happy.

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A Deputy

Will Deputy Adams ask it?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

The Taoiseach is well able to answer for himself.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We are not happy because what we want to do is to secure that recovery for all the people and have a strong economy for the benefit of the people.

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We did not follow Greece.

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More big tax cuts for the fat cats.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Adams mentions golden circles and-----

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A Deputy

Corporate tax policy.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

First, Deputy Adams has responded to the letter that I sent him and I thank him for responding to me.

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Will the Taoiseach act on it?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The common objective of everybody in this House of all parties and none is to have a situation where the intention of what the Government did when it set up the commission of investigation under Mr. Justice Cregan, to have a transparent, comprehensive and fully-accountable report in respect of all of the transactions in regard to which a write-off of over €10 million was involved, is achieved. That is the intention of Government, Deputy Adams and everybody else.

I thank Deputy Adams for his letter but I make this point to him. When we put through a decision here to have a commission of investigation, neither Deputy Adams nor anybody else raised the questions that the judge has pointed out in his interim report.

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We did not see the Attorney General's advice. That is why.

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The Attorney General cock-up on the Taoiseach's watch.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is why I sent it to Deputy Adams at an early date.

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These are legal issues, not terms of reference.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

Would Deputy Martin hold on?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is why I sent it to the Deputy as soon as I could. That is why I sent it to the other leaders of the different groupings.

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We were only consulted on the terms of reference.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I asked them for their written response because it is in everybody's interest.

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

This is Deputy Adams's question.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I have got Deputy Adams's. I have not got Fianna Fáil's. Whether it has a view or not, I do not know. Deputy Catherine Murphy's is on the way and I thank her.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Government will receive those responses in writing from the Deputies. We will consider those responses and we will have a report at Government next week as to how best we should proceed to deal with the issues that Mr. Justice Cregan has raised in his interim report.

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They are 15 months at it now.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Let me repeat that it is the intention of Government to have a fully transparent, accountable and comprehensive report-----

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The Taoiseach has to bury this as long as he can.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----in everybody's interests on the Siteserv issue. The judge has pointed out what he considers are difficulties and problems. We want to deal with those in the most transparent and most accountable way possible.

I thank Deputy Adams for his letter. Deputy Catherine Murphy's is on the way. I will await Deputy Martin's response.

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The reason the Taoiseach makes a mess of matters is characterised by his response. He refused to answer the questions. We tabled amendments to his terms of reference and the Taoiseach voted them down. We ended up voting against the Taoiseach's terms of reference because they were inadequate. Since 2012, Deputies Catherine Murphy, Pearse Doherty and I have raised questions about Siteserv. It has been three years. The Minister, Deputy Noonan, and the Taoiseach blocked it, prevaricated, sent obtuse opaque answers and refused to deal with the issues involved.

I repeat the questions. Will the Taoiseach publish the Attorney General's advice? Will he commit to dealing with this issue before Christmas?

One of the big omissions in the commission's terms of reference relates to the lack of clarity surrounding the definition of a capital loss. We have this ridiculous situation where the capital loss is defined by the liquidators of the IBRC. They define what Mr. Justice Cregan could look at and the judge acknowledges that there are upwards of 156 transactions where losses on loans in excess of €10 million were recorded by IBRC during the relevant period but are not included in the schedule of transactions because the special liquidators defined it otherwise. This equates to at least €1.5 billion of taxpayers' money which could have been used to build homes or to fix the health services, and these are not even going to be investigated by the commission. The Taoiseach thanked me for my letter. Will he act on the recommendations?

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Seán Barrett An Ceann Comhairle Fine Gael

I will thank Deputy Adams, if he adheres to the Chair. He is over time.

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Okay, fair enough.

Will the Taoiseach correct these glaring omissions? Will he commit to giving an assurance that all the necessary changes to legislation and to the commission of investigation into the IBRC's terms of reference will be put in place by Christmas, and will he commit to facilitating extended or additional sitting days of the Dáil and Seanad to do that as opposed to kicking it beyond the election?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

A commission of investigation, once approved by the Oireachtas, becomes the responsibility of the sole member appointed to conduct it.

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They are approved by the Chief Whip. That is all.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

They do so in an entirely independent manner. In this case, Mr. Justice Cregan has done considerable work, identified what he considers to be obstacles, difficulties and challenges and written his interim report, which I have forwarded to Members. My letter to Deputy Adams and the other party leaders was to ask their views of the action that should be taken to deal with the issues pointed out by the sole member.

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It is the same as it was in 2012.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I do so in the interests of everybody, in that the Government wants a situation in which Siteserv and the others are part of the commission of investigation in a fully accountable, transparent and comprehensive fashion. Mr. Justice Cregan has taken a line individually, objectively and independently in respect of confidentiality, privacy and other issues he has pointed out. We need to respond to it in a way that makes it work effectively.

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Will the Taoiseach respond to my questions?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am responding. Mr. Justice Cregan pointed out that if he is left to deal with it alone, it could take eight years. Does the Deputy want this or can we have a much more effective and swifter response? The Government will respond next week, taking into account the views of the Deputy and the other party leaders. I would like whatever structure is established to deal with it to be put in place as soon as possible, and if it is necessary to have the support of the House for extra time, it can be considered. I thank the Deputy for his letter and I will consider the points he made. I have a duty to do so. The Government will respond collectively when we receive the written responses of the other leaders.

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Will the Taoiseach publish the Attorney General's advice?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

No, I will not.

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He is protecting her again.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Mr. Justice Cregan, in his complete independence, has sent his interim report and has pointed out what he considers are the challenges.

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Did the Attorney General point them out to the Taoiseach?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We need to find a way of dealing with it as a response from the Oireachtas.

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