Last night on the "Claire Byrne Live" television show, a whistleblower gave her account of how she believed an intellectually disabled child called Grace was left in a foster home, in which she was constantly and consistently abused, until 2009. It is known that this foster home or household to which children were sent for summer respite services was so engaged from 1983 to approximately 1996, when it ceased taking new placements, but that Grace was left there until 2009 and that another person, Ann, was left there until 2013. The abuse has been described as quite shocking - it genuinely would shock any person - and it is incomprehensible that a child would be left for so long in such a dangerous household. I have been watching the proceedings of the Committee of Public Accounts this morning and the various questioning to and fro there. My first point is that the whistleblowers are clear that serious abuse was perpetrated on those children in the 1990s and, if I understand the matter correctly, even though files were sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, for some reason no prosecutions took place. Therefore, the first question I ask of the Taoiseach is whether there may be mechanisms whereby the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions could be asked to give a report explaining why these cases did not materialise into prosecutions on foot of the files that were sent. I understand from one report this morning that five files were sent to the DPP during that period. My second point is that approximately 47 children or adults were involved in this scandal.

A question please.

They were placed there by the South Eastern Health Board, by the Brothers of Charity and by private families. The Government and the Minister have indicated they are to recommend a commission of investigation into this entire scandal. Has the Taoiseach taken legal advice and is he satisfied that a commission of investigation can run in parallel to the Garda investigation that currently is under way in respect of reckless endangerment by officials?

I thank the Deputy.

I ask this because it is clear from the proceedings of the Committee of Public Accounts that the Health Service Executive, HSE, is stating it cannot publish the Devine and Resilience Ireland reports because of that selfsame Garda inquiry. The point I make to the Taoiseach is Members must be clear in this House that a robust mechanism is available to have a comprehensive inquiry into this matter both on the health side and, I suggest, on the criminal justice side. Given the experience in respect of Siteserv and even the experience of the banking inquiry, would a commission of investigation have the capacity to conduct a comprehensive inquiry of the type that is absolutely required to deal with this horrendous story?

I thank the Deputy.

Finally, in respect of any civil cases-----

Sorry, we are way over time.

-----that may arise, my understanding is the State will not defend them. Has the Government given consideration to a redress scheme or some system of compensation for the families involved? The bottom line is that 47 children or adults - highly vulnerable adults with intellectual disabilities - were left in a home about which many people had huge issues-----

Sorry, but will the Deputy conclude?

-----and the whistleblowers are clear that serious abuse was carried out on a number of children in that home.

I thank Deputy Martin for raising what is another serious legacy issue that does no reflection upon this nation or upon the institutions involved, in particular because of the case of the person known as Grace who because of her condition was silent but who by her treatment and her abandonment was silenced. It is important to understand that a great deal of allegations have been made surrounding this and other issues in regard to this particular premises. Clearly, the safety and the protection of vulnerable people has to be of paramount importance to the State. It is not that the system has failed; it is that the people in charge of the system have not measured up. The Deputy has pointed out a number of important issues. The specific case is complicated by the fact that a Garda investigation is ongoing which has precluded the HSE from publishing two separate reports, namely, the Devine report and the Resilience Ireland report, into the matter pending completion of Garda inquiries. Obviously, we need to be very focused and precise about the questions that need to be followed through on. As I understand it, it is possible for a commission of investigation to proceed in parallel to the Garda inquiry though it might mean that when the commission report is completed, it might not be possible to publish it in full pending elements of whatever might emerge from the aforementioned Garda inquiry.

I can confirm to Deputy Martin that the Government discussed this matter today and had briefings from both the Minister for Health, Deputy Varadkar, and the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, and agreed on the establishment of a statutory commission of investigation, subject to terms of reference and approval by the Oireachtas. That will be the next Oireachtas, whoever the people elect. The work that is under way, which was commissioned by the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, with Mr. Conor Dignam, SC, will be expected to form part of the drafting of the terms of reference for a commission of investigation. Additional resources have been made available for the senior counsel to allow him to accelerate completion of his report, which now is due by the end of April. I might note that both the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, and the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, have requested copies of both the Devine and the Resilience Ireland report from the HSE under section 40C of the Health Act 2004. Both Ministers believe direct access to these reports will assist their understanding of the relevant facts that are needed about the disturbing allegations that have been made. As the Deputy is aware, officials from the HSE are engaged with the Committee of Public Accounts at present. It speaks for itself that it is a committee of this House charged with dealing with monetary matters which has brought this matter to light here.

While I thank the Taoiseach for his reply, my core point is on the capacity of a commission of investigation to credibly carry out its work while the Garda investigation is under way. Presumably, a presiding judge might be highly wary of undermining the Garda inquiry. This was the very basis on which the HSE officials appearing before the Committee of Public Accounts have stated that, much as they would wish to so do, they cannot publish the Devine or Resilience Ireland reports because of the possibility of endangering the criminal inquiry. Has the Taoiseach received strong and robust legal advice from the Attorney General to state that a commission of investigation can conduct an inquiry? The Taoiseach has confirmed it cannot publish the results of the inquiry until after the Garda investigation is complete but can it actually conduct an inquiry? For example, the witnesses to such an inquiry may very well plead that they are involved in a criminal case and that they could be questioned by the Garda and so on. Will they be under an obligation, in a parallel mechanism, to give evidence to the judge? It is a serious issue in itself because the robustness of the Commissions of Investigation Act has been called into question because of the Siteserv experience. Likewise, Members had another experience in a separate inquiry, the banking inquiry, in which banking officials could not be brought forward because of criminal proceedings in the courts. Members must be clear and honest as to what are the prospects in this regard.

If he has the legal advice on that, could he share it?

Will Ministers come before the Dáil to answer questions about this from Deputies? It was normally the case in a controversy of this magnitude and scale that Ministers would come before either the health committee or a plenary session of the Dáil through a special notice arrangement to answer questions. It would be fitting and appropriate in a case such as this.

The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, is taking a Topical Issues debate on this later. Ministers do not have a difficulty dealing with this. Obviously, this goes back over quite a long number of years and, clearly, there has been a deal of correspondence. The precedent is the Ryan report into institutional abuse and while it may not be possible to publish all of the report, pending the outcome of Garda inquiries, that is the precedent that stands up-----

Ryan was not a commission of investigation; it was separate legislation. I set it up in the first place.

-----where the commission was able to do its best and all that. Given the nature and scale of allegations of abuse, which appear to be horrendous in this particular case, the decision by Government is to have a commission of investigation and to allow senior counsel Dignam to complete his work as a scoping exercise for the drafting of appropriate terms of reference. The Resilience Ireland and Devine reports, obviously, will form the basis of what needs to be put in place, focusing on the precise and individual questions. Why was the home in question to be cleared of all foster children and yet a decision made that this should not be so? It is important to note that most of the children who attended the home were there for respite purposes for a week or a short period and it has been quite a number of years since there was any public placement by the State.

I am informed by the Minister that there is a Topical Issue in this House and a Commencement matter in the Seanad on this matter today. Members will have the right to ask questions.

That is only five minutes, for God's sake.

The Minister of State is in the Seanad at the moment. The HSE is answering questions, I understand, before the Committee of Public Accounts.

I thank the Taoiseach. We are way over time.

But the Ministers will not answer questions in the plenary session. That is what should happen.

To answer the Deputy's final question, there was no discussion about a redress scheme this morning. It is important that we focus on completing the work of Dignam and publishing and addressing the issues in the Resilience Ireland and Devine reports in order that when the Department drafts the terms of reference for the commission for investigation, they will be appropriate and focused precisely on what needs to be dealt with.