All the Members of both Houses and the public at large will have been appalled by the revelations concerning one of the charities most associated with our nation's silent crisis, the loss of life through suicide. There are now five investigations under way between the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation, the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement, the HSE, the Charities Regulatory Authority and the remaining directors of Console itself. We all look forward to the outcome of those reports in order that we can have some peace of mind that the charity's good work over many years can continue and that its reputation can be cleaned up.

There is, however, a very serious issue at large with the some 3,000 other charities. There is clearly an issue among some with what is referred to within the charity sector as founder's syndrome, which has often served to undermine the introduction of good governance and appropriate management controls. Apart from all this, however, is the failure of these Houses to commence provisions of the Charities Act 2009, in particular Part 4. It is incumbent on the Government to explain why, during the previous Administration and this one so far, the Oireachtas and the Government have failed to provide the necessary provisions to commence that part of the Act in order that the Charities Regulatory Authority can begin to do the work which it was set up to do. Why do we have a regulator if it does not have the teeth or the resources to do what we wish it to do? As things stand, the regulator can only seek materials from these organisations with the agreement of the organisations themselves, so in effect, despite its good intentions, it can do no work. Can the Government confirm, therefore, that it will commence the provisions relevant to resourcing and giving the regulator the necessary teeth, as envisaged by the 2009 Act, before the summer recess and that the necessary resources will be provided to do that?

Over recent years €12 million of public funds has been made available to the charity in question. Many millions more were donated and fund-raised by service users, their families, relatives and neighbours and the many communities throughout the country which have been hit with the blow of loss of life through suicide. These are people who cannot afford to give money or to dig deep and fund-raise and give valuable resources throughout a recession and a most difficult period in this country, yet they do. The Oireachtas and the Government have a responsibility to ensure this Act is more than just window dressing. We need to see tangible action to introduce the provisions of this Act that give the regulator teeth in order that we can begin to focus on the other 3,000 charities, most of them doing an excellent job. They are entitled to the peace of mind of knowing that their hard work, taxpayers' money and donations are going to a good cause that is appropriately managed with the appropriate level of governance.

First, I share Deputy MacSharry's view that this has come as a shocking revelation in an area of particular sensitivity.

We all understand the trauma people and families go through in cases of suicide. There has been major shock and disgust among those who have supported the charity. As the Deputy said, it is very important that we protect the valuable work done by many of those who have worked in the area. It is heartening to see that the investigation comes directly from the HSE's close scrutiny of charities under its framework. The HSE has a revised framework for all of the bodies it funds. It was in this context that the irregularities in Console were first identified, followed by an audit and the investigation, with a new governance structure being put in place to deal particularly with the issues in Console.

The Deputy referred to the role of the Charities Regulatory Authority, which is being rolled out. Its first priority was to establish a proper register of the organisations the operations of which it would oversee. It has done this. It has established an interim arrangement under which it receives complaints from individuals. It is moving to provide staffing in order that it can, as the Deputy requested, commence Part 4. The authority has 23 staff and its 2016 budget provided for an increase to 36. This will allow the regulator to move to establish the basis on which this Part of the Act can be implemented.

Some elements such as the investigation of potential fraud fall beyond the operation of the Charities Regulatory Authority. Failings in respect of directors' responsibilities fall to be investigated by the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement. Issues are being actively pursued in the case of Console that fall outside the Charities Regulatory Authority's direct responsibility. We are moving to ensure the authority will engage in the oversight which the Deputy rightly says is appropriate for the future.

That is not acceptable. There are many reasons for failure but no excuses. The Oireachtas and the Government cannot constantly depend on the focus and sharpness of "Prime Time" in looking after the hard-working staff of Console and the many charities throughout the country, including the counsellors we heard on radio who struggle on a monthly basis to get paid. A precise date is required from the Government, before the Dáil rises on 31 July, by which this Part of the Act will be fully commenced, as well as a commitment to focus heavily to ensure it will not take a "Prime Time" or a HSE audit to bring this stuff up. We need to do it on a constant basis, with regular checks, to ensure all these materials are being made available. Before we are much older, in a matter of hours the Minister should indicate that it will be done before the Dáil rises on 31 July.

Part of the work of this and the previous Government has been turning over stones that were not previously overturned. Activities were ongoing that were totally unacceptable. The result of the work done by the HSE and the Committee of Public Accounts was that the HSE introduced new governance standards for such organisations. It is as a result of this work that we have such scrutiny. This has been found in a HSE audit. While it is very uncomfortable, it is the result of the system working. Oversight has resulted in the identification of wrongdoing and misgovernance which is being tackled in a very determined way. We are determined to ensure all organisations will be subject to appropriate scrutiny. The work being done by the Charities Regulatory Authority with its new staff will put it in a position where it will be able to implement the Part of the Act that provides for investigations. I am sure the Minister will keep the Deputy abreast of when it is to be enacted.

Last week the RTE "Prime Time" programme did a great public service in setting out a tale of truly outlandish spending by the charity Console on the part of its founder and his family.

The story is amazing but not unique. Sadly, we have been down this road previously with other charitable entities. The programme told a story of irregularities in finances, of altering accounts, and of how benefits were extracted. It was reported that the charity's founder, Mr. Paul Kelly, his wife, Patricia, and indeed their son used 11 credit cards over a two-year period to shell out almost €500,000 of the charity's funds to fund their lavish lifestyle. That is truly shocking and despicable. Money was used for trips to Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, designer clothes by Hugo Boss and Ralph Lauren, tickets for the Rugby World Cup, dental work, groceries, restaurants and consultancy payments at an extraordinary level. This has left those who work for Console and those who avail of its services not just shocked but angry and traumatised by these revelations.

I am sure the Minister will be as shocked as the rest of us by this turn of events. His claim that all this emerged because of exacting scrutiny by the HSE needs to be considered. I suggest all this is evidence of a lack of scrutiny and a lack of accountability. As I understand it, the flag of concern was first raised by the National Office for Suicide Prevention as far back as 2009 and the question has to be asked, once the flag was raised, why this was allowed to continue.

Will the Minister join me in calling on the HSE to make available immediately to the Committee of Public Accounts a copy of its audit report and the service level agreements with Console? Will he also join me in insisting that the HSE presents itself before the committee next week? This issue, this story and this scandal cannot be allowed to fester. I appreciate other agencies have tasks to fulfil in investigation but the buck stops with us, and the turning over of stones in the previous Dáil was largely done by the Committee of Public Accounts. It is entirely appropriately that the HSE be called and that its officials present themselves, and it is absolutely necessary that the Government insists that this happen immediately, with the committee meeting next week to deal with this.

I fully agree with the Deputy that this is an appalling situation. I also agree we have a right to ensure the oversight bodies and their activities are fully accounted for before the Oireachtas. I am sure HSE representatives will make themselves available to appear before the Committee of Public Accounts or the Committee on Health.

It is correct that issues arose previously which were identified by the National Office for Suicide Prevention. That resulted in control actions being taken then. It was when the 2013 accounts became available to that body, which oversees this work, that irregularities were identified and that resulted in the HSE undertaking the audit. This information resulted from direct action. The audit was completed earlier this year and that has resulted in the appointment of external accountants who are in place now. Clearly, the House is entitled to scrutinise the HSE on the way it oversaw this, but there is no doubt that there is a trail of activity. It is not one of ignoring the issues that were identified in 2009. HSE staff have been watching closely. The irregularities that were identified resulted in the audit. Of course, they will have to be investigated, and if further action needs to be taken by appropriate bodies such as the ODCE or the Garda, there must be due process for everyone involved in pursuing the steps that might follow from the findings of the audit. The House must respect that as well.

There will be follow-up in those various agencies where there has to be due process. I share the Deputy's view that the HSE should appear and account for its activities as it is obliged to do.

There is no question of anybody querying the necessity of due process but let us cut to the chase on this. People who have had the tragedy and trauma of a death by suicide in their family or in their close circle or community or people who have had suicidal thoughts themselves and who deal with situations of utter despair and rely on agencies such as Console as literally a lifeline for them have to know that they are properly governed and that their bona fides is sound. Anything less than that is not acceptable. The taxpayer who funds, in large measure, agencies such as this, of which there are thousands, needs to know that taxpayers' money is not being used for Ralph Lauren, Rugby World Cup tickets, fancy cars or big consultancy fees. Certainly those who fund-raise need that reassurance too.

I ask the Minister not to be sure or not to speculate. I want him today, on behalf of the Government, to tell the HSE to provide that documentation to the Committee of Public Accounts and to make itself available next week because it is only through that process that we can establish if the HSE was vigilant or if the State again was asleep at the wheel while a scandal like this in a charitable organisation unfolded.

I have absolute confidence. The Committee of Public Accounts is an independent committee. It has its own authority. The HSE will respond to requests that come from the Committee of Public Accounts. It is obliged to do so. I have no doubt about that. The Committee of Public Accounts does not rely on suggestions or directions from me. It is an independent powerful committee of this House. Its independence and capacity to call people is absolutely established and I am sure the HSE will respond.

Why would the Minister not call on it?

To be fair to the HSE, it is important to understand that this has followed its close scrutiny of irregularities that were identified. The audit has come from one undertaken by the HSE. It has pursued that audit and acted to make sure that in this case we are seeing the results of its overturning the stones, so to speak. It is also important for the House to be aware that the HSE has a revised governance framework for all organisations of that nature, for which it provides funding.

A Cheann Comhairle, I asked the Minister to call-----

No, Deputy.

People can be assured that the HSE does oversee the bodies referred to. To go back to Deputy MacSharry's point-----

No, I do not want the Minister to go back to anything. I want him-----

Deputy, please resume your seat.

-----it is very clear that the charities regulator will also have a role to play in overseeing all charities.

-----to call on the HSE to provide the documentation and to come before the committee. That was my question to the Minister.

The Deputy's question is finished now.

No, my question has not been answered.

No. Please, Deputy.

I do not know what conclusion we can draw from the Minister's prevarication on this issue.

Will the Deputy resume her seat?

Could you ask the Minister to answer my question?

I cannot. I am not empowered to ask the Minister-----

For God's sake, I thought we had new politics.

We thought so too.

We have old politics from Sinn Féin.

Can we move on, please? I call Deputy Michael Lowry on behalf of the rural independent group.