In a similar vein, I put it to the Taoiseach that the Government's strategy on pay is beginning to unravel. Originally, his strategy was to isolate the teachers in the ASTI who did not agree to the Lansdowne Road agreement; they overwhelmingly rejected the conditions attached to the agreement. He then went and did separate deals with the other teachers' unions where there was discontent and with gardaí who, by a huge majority, rejected the outcome of that process. The Taoiseach's strategy to isolate the ASTI is unravelling. Importantly, his strategy seemed aimed at putting manners on all workers to try to stop the contagion spreading not just through the public sector, but also through the private sector, particularly when we consider the lousy 10 cent on the hour recommendation from the Low Pay Commission towards the minimum wage. How, in the name of God, could an economy that is in recovery make that kind of offer to 20% of our population who work for that sort of pay? This Government is worried about the spread of contagion that has gone from Luas to Dublin Bus, where pay rises that went beyond what were being offered were successful. I welcome the fact that gardaí and teachers are standing outside that process and demanding justice.

It is worth reminding the House that the financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation, which was brought in by the previous speaker, has reduced-----

-----the pay of public sector workers by a huge amount. Year on year for five years, over 230,000 public sector workers who earn less than €60,000 a year, with the vast majority earning less than €40,000 a year, have lost €27,000. That is a huge cut and a huge loss to those public sector workers in order to bail out the banks. When those of us in this House are discussing pay and pay increases, we should remind ourselves of the money we, the Taoiseach and other Ministers earn. We should think about how we compare, and how we look to others.

I want to make special mention of nurses because in any hospital today, three nurses working alongside each other doing the same job could be on three different rates of pay.

Imagine how they feel and how demoralised, annoyed and seriously angry they are with this State. They must then deal with a creaking health service that cannot even deliver sufficient beds to the population. Moreover, the Government cannot even get the nurses who qualify here to stay in Ireland, as 5,500 out of 7,000 of them have emigrated in recent years. In addition, the Government had a failed campaign to bring them back home that did nothing to alleviate that problem. They will continue to emigrate for logical reasons because they cannot afford to rent or to buy in any of the cities and find it extremely difficult to rear their families. How does the Taoiseach perceive the Government's policy on public sector pay can continue in this vein without serious consideration being given to repealing the FEMPI legislation, which goes to the heart of all these issues?

As pointed out in response to a question from Deputy Howlin, the Government obviously is anxious that the mechanisms of the State are used well to encourage people to engage in this regard and to deal with matters where industrial action has taken place, is threatened or is a cause for concern. That is what such mechanisms are for. The Lansdowne Road agreement on public service pay is the mechanism the Government believes can deal with the vast majority of these. As the Deputy is aware, two teacher unions have accepted; the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland, ASTI, is outside that fold at present. I am glad and happy that the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, and the Garda Representative Association, GRA, have agreed to meet the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality. They will find the Minister attentive to their particular problems and I hope that matter can proceed arising from those discussions.

For the Deputy's information, the Low Pay Commission was set up with a particular purpose in mind: to be objective, to be independent and to declare to the Government what in its view would be an appropriate increase for low-paid employees in respect of the minimum wage. That is the reason it was set up, and after its establishment, the Government followed suit in implementing the recommendation of the commission. The people concerned are not under the diktat of the Government, as the Deputy seems to point out. In so far as the position in health is concerned, with a budget that now is greater than €14.5 billion, the Health Service Executive, HSE, offers permanent contracts to young nurses coming out of college and permanent employment to nurses who have been in temporary employment. Moreover, discussions are ongoing in respect of the incremental rights of those nurses who have been graduates for a number of years and who did not receive those rights. The Minister for Health already has spoken to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and I hope this matter also can be resolved.

To take up the Taoiseach's second point in respect of the Low Pay Commission, to the effect that a group of people who were objective and independent came up with an increase of 10 cent per hour, it would be interesting to ascertain for a start how much the members of that commission are getting paid hourly. It does not make them objective or independent if they are getting a hell of a lot more money, which I suspect they are. Second, the Government simply will not be able to recruit the nurses. For as long as the FEMPI legislation remains in place and the Government does not deal with nurses' pay, beds that are needed in hospitals will not be opened up.

Measures could be taken which could repeal the FEMPI legislation at a cost of €2.1 billion to the State. First, the tax loopholes to entities such as real estate investment trusts, REITs, vulture funds and other financial institutions could be closed off. The sort of tax breaks and loopholes they are allowed could be taken away. Second, when one thinks about it, were workers to regain that pay, they probably would be paying back more than half of it in tax and PRSI to the State and would spend the other half. It would not be hived off into tax havens and offshore accounts. Workers actually spend in the economy and, consequently, there would be a net gain to all in terms of morale, recruitment, fulfilling the services of this State and returning the money to where it belongs. The Taoiseach should stop protecting the very wealthy and give it back to workers who deserve it in abundance.

I repeat for the Deputy that the Low Pay Commission is comprised of people who are not being dictated to by the Government stating what they must do. They have terms of reference to look at what might be an appropriate increase in the minimum wage for low-paid workers and they proceed in doing that completely independently and objectively.

Deputy Bríd Smith does not seem to want to accept that but it is a fact. The people in question are not dictated to by Government, nor should they be. The commission would not be operating as an independent entity if they were being dictated to.

It is like Marie Antoinette saying, "Let them eat cake".

There was an increase of 1,063 in the number of nurses employed in the public health service - there are now 35,712 - from August 2014 to August 2016. The numbers had fallen by 4,000 from 2007 to 2014. I pointed out to Deputy Bríd Smith that the matter of the incremental credit for the 36-week clinical placement undertaken by fourth year student nurses was abolished by the Government in office in December 2010 as part of a number of measures to reduce public service pay bills. Previously, on taking up employment with the HSE following graduation, nurses would go onto the second point of the scale after 16 weeks. A recommendation has been made that that should be paid and the two Ministers are speaking about the matter.