Political pay increases and Northern Bank jibes
Mary Lou McDonald attacked proposed increases in politicians’ pay and sought a commitment to stop them; Varadkar replied that no new rises were proposed and the issue was restoration of pay cut under emergency legislation. The exchange descended into interruptions and barbs about Sinn Féin’s record, Northern Ireland welfare powers, and the Northern Bank, with McDonald insisting the question had not been answered.
The Minister's colleagues in government have consistently refused to tackle and put a stop to the outrageous proposed increases in politicians' pay. He will agree with me that we are all well paid. Deputies earn a basic salary of €87,258. It is a wage that many workers would envy. Indeed, it is a wage that the majority of workers will never earn. Of course, the Minister and his ministerial colleagues take home much more - in excess of €150,000 - but let us stick with Deputies.
The proposed increases of more than €5,000 would bring a Deputy's salary to over €92,000. That is unacceptable, in particular at a time when Deputy Varadkar, as the Minister for Social Protection, is telling pensioners that they are worth an extra fiver per week and young people who are out of work are worth even less than that, a mere €2.70 per week. He still has not told social welfare recipients when they will get their increases. He might enlighten us in that regard.
The issue is one of fairness. That is what is driving pay disputes among gardaí, nurses and teachers. Today, Sinn Féin is publishing a motion that will stop these unfair payments to Deputies, Senators, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister. This is not because we do not believe that people should be fairly paid but as a result of the fact that it is unfair that someone who is on €30,000 or €40,000 per year, an average wage in the public sector, gets pay restoration of €1,000 while Deputies expect to be paid €92,000.
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At a time when €5 is the best that the Minister can do for pensioners and many private sector workers, politicians cannot and must not get special treatment. We need to put a stop to this. That is what citizens wish to see. That is the fair thing to do. Will the Minister give a commitment that the Government will act properly and legislate to stop unjust pay increases for political representatives?
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I thank the Deputy. The situation is as follows: there are no pay rises and no pay increases proposed for politicians. There have been no pay rises and no pay increases for politicians since 2008.
What is happening in respect of Deputies is a restoration of some of the pay that was cut from their salaries as a consequence of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act. With respect to Ministers, pay was cut by 35%. We will not be accepting any restoration. The Taoiseach's pay was cut by 40% and he will not be accepting any restoration. The pay of Ministers of State was cut by 25% and they will not be accepting any restoration. Therefore, the Deputy does not need to include any provisions in this regard in her Bill. We will not be accepting any restoration because we earn more than €100,000 and have special responsibilities as officeholders to hold the line when it comes to public sector pay across the board.
For Deputies, the situation is slightly different. The pay of Deputies is, as it should be, linked to that of other people in the civil and public service, specifically to the rank of principal officer. Deputies should not decide their own pay. A link was established between the pay of Deputies and that of principal officers some years ago and it should remain. We do not want to go back to what Deputy McDonald wants, namely, a situation where politicians decide what they are paid. The link between the pay of Deputies and principal officers will remain and if pay is restored for other public and civil servants in line with the Lansdowne Road agreement or any agreement that may replace it, it will apply accordingly.
It is interesting to hear Deputy McDonald attempting to lecture me about what I am saying to pensioners and social welfare recipients in this jurisdiction. Sinn Féin is in office in Northern Ireland, where it tells pensioners, people who are unemployed, carers and people with disabilities they are worth less than £100 per week. The Deputy's party tells lone parents in the North whose youngest child is six years of age that they should not be treated any differently from other lone parents. Do not pretend to me, Deputy McDonald, that somehow your party is not in charge of that. Remember what you did because you were not willing to make decisions around welfare in Northern Ireland.
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This always happens with Sinn Féin when it does not want to hear the truth.
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It would be helpful if the Minister would address his remarks through the Chair rather than to the Deputy. I ask Members to have a little respect and allow the Minister to respond.
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This always happens because Sinn Féin does not want to hear the facts. We all know what happened in Northern Ireland where the party's representatives voted to transfer the powers relating to welfare back to London in order to avoid making decisions. They then tried to claim they never had those powers. In fact, they did have those powers but they voted to transfer them back to London for a period of time so that the British Government could make decisions for them. That is what Sinn Féin means when it talks about republicanism and sovereignty. It is about making popular decisions when it suits and, when it does not, transferring the decisions to others.
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The Minister might raise his concerns regarding welfare recipients in the North with the Tory Government. He might also raise the issue of partition. That would be a helpful thing if his concerns are genuine. I am fully conversant with the facts in this scenario. It is the Minister who turns his head away from the very simple fact that the proposed increases for Deputies, Ministers, the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste simply cannot be justified. He reflected that fact in his answer when he clung to even the most implausible of explanations for those increases. We in this House earn more than €87,000. It is enough. I wonder whether tax-paying citizens reckon they are getting €87,000 worth of value out of everybody seated here? I wonder whether tax-paying citizens reckon they are getting €150,000 worth of value from every sitting Minister? That would be an interesting question to pose to the public.
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I know, and the Minister should know that there is no public tolerance at this time, when a fiver is given to pensioners amidst great fanfare and €2.70 is afforded to young people out of work, for so-called political leaders having the brass iron neck to suggest our generous salaries and the Minister's generous salary should be hiked up again.
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The Deputy's time has elapsed. I ask her to resume her seat and allow the Minister to respond.
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If the Government is not prepared to legislate on this matter, will the Minister, his ministerial colleagues and others, including on the Fianna Fáil and Labour Party benches, support the Sinn Féin motion?
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If Sinn Féin gives us access to the Northern Bank account, we will.
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I ask Deputy McDonald and all other Deputies to adhere please to the ruling of the House that sets out particular times-----
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I was watching the clock. The Fianna Fáil speakers went over time.
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Deputy Ferris always had a keen eye.
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The Deputy always had a good aim. He always had a good sight line.
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Perhaps we should have a special new session where Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin can have questions among themselves and see how that dynamic plays out.
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That will happen after the next election.
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It might be handy to have a GP on the sideline.
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I will, of course, pursue Deputy McDonald's suggestion of raising the issue of the paltry welfare payments paid to people in Northern Ireland with the Tory Government. I will also bring it up with the Minister of Finance in Northern Ireland, Mr. Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, who is a Sinn Féin Minister-----
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The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, should look somewhere else.
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Again, I am being interrupted mid-sentence because Sinn Féin is terrified of the facts and really hates the truth being spoken in this Chamber.
Deputy McDonald is correct in saying that she is paid €87,000 per year as are all of the other Teachtaí Dála who are on her party's benches now. However, they claim that they only draw the industrial wage. Perhaps Deputy McDonald will tell us how much they return to the State. Perhaps she will tell us why the exact salaries of special advisers in Northern Ireland are not published, even though those of their counterparts in the Republic of Ireland are published.
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Perhaps she will tell us how much money Sinn Féin MPs, including some who are now Teachtaí Dála, claimed from the British Treasury for jobs they never did. Perhaps she will explain why they-----
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The Minister is over time now. I call Deputy Michael Lowry on behalf of the Rural Independent Group. The Deputy has three minutes.
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The Minister has not answered my question.