Water commission report
Mary Lou McDonald welcomed the water commission report’s support for public ownership and general taxation, while criticising the Government’s handling of the issue. Bruton argued the report should be worked through in committee and accused Sinn Féin of selectively quoting it, before the Chair handed over to Brendan Howlin.
Yesterday evening, we received the long-awaited report of the commission on the future of water charges. I welcome aspects of the report, particularly the call for constitutional protection to keep our water services in public ownership. Sinn Féin has long argued for that. I also welcome the commission's recognition that the best way to pay for general domestic water usage is through general taxation. Sinn Féin has long argued that case also. The report rightly recommends fair treatment for those on group water schemes and those who paid the Government's water charge. In Sinn Féin's view, this means no domestic charges for those on such schemes or those with their own water sources and involves refunding those who paid the Government's water charges to date but - and this is a big "but" - we do not support the commission's proposal for a charge on so-called excessive use. This, in reality, is simply a rehash of the original Fianna Fáil-Green Party proposal devised in 2009 and it would inevitably lead to the introduction of across-the-board water charges in the future. A low charge now to soften the blow before hiking charges in the future is how the story goes and that is not acceptable. Given Fine Gael's and, indeed, Fianna Fáil's track record on water charges, how could anyone trust them not to increase water charges in the future? The Minister's colleague, the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government said as much this morning. He stated, "No water charges for the moment".
Having flip flopped from one position to another more times than I care to remember, we learned this morning that Fianna Fáil is proposing to introduce a super-tax of combined water charges and property tax. A super-tax from super-Fianna Fáil. Sinn Féin is committed to scrapping both. In any event, the report acknowledges that determining what is excessive water usage would be extremely difficult to calculate. It is also highly likely that the cost of administering and enforcing such a scheme would be greater than the revenue that might be realised. Let us be clear that citizens have demanded no water charges through the front door or through the back door.
In light of the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government's statement this morning, is it the Government's intention to pursue those who did not or who could not pay water charges? If so, will this be done through the courts, the Revenue or deductions from social welfare payments? Will the Government act to enshrine water services in public ownership? Will the Minister commit today to a referendum being held in respect of this matter in the future?
Comment on this
I thank all those who have been involved in drawing up this report. It is a useful piece of work done under the chairmanship of Mr. Kevin Duffy and it shows that a great deal of expertise was brought to bear on the issue. The report allows us to have a genuine conversation about the future of water. The Deputy has selectively picked parts that she likes and chosen to ignore others. What we now have to do in the political environment that exists is use the committee that has been established, and on which Sinn Féin is represented, to tease out the issues that have been highlighted. How do we ensure that genuine people who did their civic duty are treated equally and not put at a disadvantage in respect of this matter? We equally must examine how we might deal with the fact that there is in the legislation an absolute assurance that no change in ownership can occur without a plebiscite. We have to decide whether we need to go further than that. The Deputy has expressed her view, but I am certainly content to wait for the committee to tease out this matter. The commission has also made it clear that it believes the polluter pays principle, which is at the heart of a great deal of thinking about the use of water, would be met by making normal usage free. That would be decided by an independent regulator, not the Government.
Where people are using manifestly excessive amounts of water, that would be paid for. There is a large element of fairness in that.
Much of the discussion during the general election campaign focused on the need to bring about greater fairness and to ensure that our economic success would be used in a fairer way. Making sure that we use resources in a fair way has been at the heart of the thinking of the new Government. The commission has pointed the way to some elements of how water should be dealt with in a fair way. These elements include the principle of the polluter pays. They also include ensuring that no person who did his or her civic duty and paid up will be left at a disadvantage. They further include, as the Deputy rightly says, that those who are involved in group schemes and other schemes will not be placed at a disadvantage. That is very valuable food for thought.
I am content to work within the committee. Fine Gael members will work with others on the committee to find a sensible route forward for a resource that is immensely important to our social and economic progress and which needs an investment in the near term of €5.5 billion and in the longer term, according to Irish Water, one of €13 billion. We need to have a sustainable approach. It will not be achieved by individual parties grandstanding and saying they are going to stand on this ground and not consider any other opportunities or options. We have to behave in accordance with the way we were elected. We are legislators. We have to deliberate on what has been provided to us as expert opinion and draw conclusions collectively. That is what I look forward to doing.
Comment on this
We can agree on the point that we should behave in accordance with how we were elected. The majority of Deputies in this Dáil were elected on the basis of the abolition of water charges. That is a statement of fact. The Government does not need a commission, a committee or a long, elaborate process of reflection to understand that reality. That is what the majority of Deputies, including this crowd here in Fianna Fáil, were elected to do.
Committee or no committee, the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, was quite clear in saying that those who have not paid will be pursued. I want to know what that means. Does that mean that this matter will go through the courts? Will the Government use the Revenue Commissioners? Will it deduct money from people's social welfare payments? I will enlighten colleagues that this is not a matter which those affected will be happy to leave in abeyance or about which they will just wait and see. Lots of people paid this charge because the Government browbeat and bullied them into it. Many did not pay because they simply will not pay as a matter of principle. Lots more did not pay because they could not pay. Those people need to know today whether it is the intention of the Government, as enunciated by the Minister, Deputy Coveney, to pursue them through the courts, by means of the efforts of the Revenue Commissioners or via their welfare payments. Will the Minister, Deputy Bruton, please make a clear statement on the matter?
Comment on this
It is nonsense to suggest that people were elected on any one issue. People were elected because of concerns across a range of issues. They wanted to see people getting back to work. They wanted those on welfare who had not received increases for eight years to receive such increases. This Government is providing a response in respect of many of the issues that were raised during the election campaign. We all recognise that we did not get a majority. No one got a majority and we have to work together to develop fair solutions. This Government is delivering fair solutions for welfare recipients who had not received an increase for eight years, for people who are getting back to work and for investment in education, particularly in the context of disadvantage and in the area of special education. We are providing solutions.
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How is the Government pursuing water charges?
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How is the Government pursuing water charges?
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As Deputies elected to this House, we have to deliberate on this decision. We have to reach our own decisions. We are not pre-empting that. We all have our views.
Comment on this
The Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, just said-----
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We all have our views. Sinn Féin set out its red-line issues. We need to sit down at the committee that has been appointed for the purpose of-----
Comment on this
The Minister is not answering the question.
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The committee will be well chaired and we will reach a conclusion.
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The Deputy fails to understand the process.
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I understand the process perfectly.