The public transport system is in a perpetual state of crisis. In the past 12 months alone we have seen Luas and Dublin Bus workers go on strike and a very troubling rail review by the National Transport Authority. Bus Éireann is facing catastrophe. On Tuesday the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport told the Government that Bus Éireann was facing insolvency within two years and that because of losses of over €5 million last year and upwards of €6 million this year between six and eight bus routes would be cut. It is believed these bus routes are covered by Expressway services, on which thousands upon thousands of people depend in going about their daily lives. They connect people and communities and are the vital link between rural and urban centres. The Minister knows as well I as do that public transport provision is the most effective way to reduce traffic congestion, link communities and improve local and regional economies. It also has its part to play in protecting the environment. In fact, it is probably the main solution to the myriad transport problems we face. I am sure the Minister will also understand that by, their very nature, public transport services are not always profit making, but it is not about that, nor should it be. The hint is in the words "public transport"; it is about providing a service for the people and the State. The importance of public transport transcends profit. That is what having a public transport network is about. Citizens are justifiably concerned by any plan to cut bus routes or rail services, particularly in rural communities but also across the State. We also need to consider transport workers. Bus Éireann has mooted the potential separation of Expressway services and we all know what that means - it means privatisation. The solution is increasing subvention levels, given that there have been eight years of gross underfunding and underinvestment, to ensure we deliver a first-class public transport system in whatever way we can. Yesterday the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport did not give a commitment to support my suggestion that there be engagement with all stakeholders to find a solution to save the public transport network, but it needs to happen if we are sincere about protecting, preserving and enhancing the network. My question is simple but of massive significance to people living in rural and urban communities the length and breadth of the State. Unlike the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport yesterday, will the Minister commit to engagement with all stakeholders, including the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, the National Transport Authority, Bus Éireann and the unions, to try to find some solution to preserve and protect the public transport network and ensuring this will happen without delay?

It is important to deal with the facts. The subvented part of Bus Éireann's network, the public service obligation, PSO, network, is performing well and will receive additional taxpayers' resources both this year and next year. The issue arises where Bus Éireann is competing with other operators, areas in which the State is prevented from intervening in a way that would be seen to be anti-competitive. We need to identify what the real problems are. The State needs to ensure people have access to an adequate public transport service in areas in which it might not be commercially viable to provide a service, where there are no alternatives and no competitive routes. We are increasing the level of State support in these areas. What are at risk are Bus Éireann services on competitive routes.

Yesterday representatives of Bus Éireann attended the Labour Court. Their appearance was on foot of a pay claim lodged by unions. Bus Éireann outlined the very serious financial position it was in. All Members of the House are by now aware of the situation. I am advised that Bus Éireann is losing about €6 million a year. However, the core problem is on the competitive routes on which the State is prohibited from intervening and subsidising services. It is clear that management at Bus Éireann needs to develop plans to address the commercial challenges facing the company. The formulation and progression of these plans are, of course, matters for its management team. People should not cross over, fudge and merge the arguments between the PSO routes that are supported with taxpayers' money, as they should be, and the competitive routes on which Bus Éireann is struggling and losing money.

It is blatantly obvious that by saturating the competitive routes the public transport network will suffer. Particularly on urban routes competitors are coming in and creaming off the most profitable routes and leaving the least profitable ones for the public network. The Minister did not answer my question. I asked him that if the Government was genuinely interested in resolving the issue, would it give its support in the engagement of all stakeholders to find a solution. He did not answer that question and I hope he will. I cannot see why the Government would not encourage all stakeholders, given the crisis in which we find ourselves. If it does not do so, one will have to ask if it is now Government policy to cut off rural Ireland. Is that its policy? Is it its policy to tidy up the public transport network to make it presentable for privatisation? If not, it should have no qualms in committing to supporting engagement with all stakeholders.

With respect, I ask the Deputy to stop trying to fly kites and raise concerns that are not founded in fact.

They are founded in fact.

They are founded in fact.

Yesterday the Labour Court indicated-----

But-----

The Deputies should listen; they do not like to hear the truth.

About which Labour Court ruling are we talking for a start?

Giving easy answers is the usual approach of Sinn Féin. Yesterday the Labour Court indicated-----

It is 100% Bus Éireann routes.

May we have order, please?

Is the Deputy making a statement for the Dáil?

The Minister will need to cop on.

Will the Minister, please, continue?

Yesterday the Labour Court indicated that it would not issue a recommendation on the basis that the company was finalising a restructuring plan to be ready by the end of January. However, the Labour Court also stated it was available to the company and the trade unions in the interim, if required. I hope both sides will engage on a constructive basis to seek to resolve difficult issues. There are difficult issues and I do not belittle them. Irish Rail faces real challenges, as does Bus Éireann. Of course, the Government must be supportive in encouraging the arms of the State and mechanisms within it to try to find solutions. We are legally prevented from engaging in cross-subsidisation which seems to be what the Deputy is suggesting. Let us focus on the areas where we can legally see solutions to real problems, as opposed to trying to fly kites and pretend that certain things can be done when they cannot be.

I call Deputy Michael Lowry.

Does the Government support engagement?

May we, please, have order for Deputy Michael Lowry?

The Minister did not answer the question.

No; Deputy Michael Lowry is next.

Does the Government support engagement?

Will the Minister, please, answer the question?