There have been very significant events at Bus Éireann which have caused deep concern among the workforce and the travelling public. I make the point that the issues are fundamentally of a policy nature and there are important policy principles at stake. It is very important that the Government makes it clear that it supports the principle of a State-supported public service transport company. I want to make it clear that we do and that we think flowing from that should be a determined effort to ensure the existing issues and challenges are resolved.

It should be acknowledged that there had been significant cuts to the public subvention to Bus Éireann in recent years, from €49 million in 2009 to €36 million this year. While that represents an increase this year over last year, it indicates nonetheless the significant change in terms of public subvention that has occurred. In terms of the operation of the free travel scheme, Bus Éireann receives approximately €4.86 per passenger on a route compared with the fare of €11.78, and it is clear there is a yawning gap between those figures as well. Those are two avenues that are available to the Government of the day in terms of ensuring the retention and viability of any public service transport company. The route licensing system needs to be reviewed and Deputy Troy has articulated that on an ongoing basis.

I make the point that decent wages are important. In this society and in developed economies where there is growing inequality between those on very high wages and those on low wages, the state has a role to play to ensure there is some decent degree of incomes policy in certain sectors of the economy. In certain sectors there have been very significant downward pressures because of globalisation and we have seen the political dislocation and disruption that has occurred as a result. That is a significant issue in the context of the Bus Éireann dispute as well, and of that there is no doubt. That is something the Government must weigh up.

The Labour Court has declined to get involved. I have been making the point consistently to the Taoiseach that this is not only a narrow management-union issue. It is a broader issue in terms of public policy and transport policy. I put it to the Taoiseach that the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport needs to convene talks between the National Transport Authority, which has a critical role in such matters as licensing, the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, Bus Éireann and the various trade unions involved to iron out the policy framework and the key issues that can form the background to a successful resolution of the outstanding issues.

Obviously, this is a matter of policy. However, it is also a matter of commercial reality. Essentially, the matter is under discussion between the management and trade unions. The Oireachtas joint committee is currently hearing from the acting chief executive officer of Bus Éireann in respect of the company's current difficulties. Government policy in this area is that the travelling public should have access to the best quality in transport services, whether that is in frequency or choice of routes. That should apply for customers and for commuters. There have been a number of positive changes in the last couple of years which have resulted in more services, better frequencies and more competitive fares and the travelling public has voted with its feet. The number for the use of commercial bus services was approximately 23 million in 2015. We should welcome first and foremost the fact that more people are using public transport.

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform granted an increase of 17% in the subvention this year and it is now up to €35 million. However, it is a commercial fact that passenger growth has not been experienced in the Expressway arm of Bus Éireann, a service that competes with other operators. I gave Deputy Troy the number of licences issued in recent years in response to a point that was raised. There was some misunderstanding about the number issued.

I hope the trade unions and management can continue to engage in a realistic and constructive fashion about this serious matter. There are those who try to ascribe what is happening to a policy failing. However, as the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, and I have stated, this is a commercial problem and it deserves a commercial response. That means a resolution between the company and the trade unions must be found. We must be very clear about this. At the heart of this public policy issue is the travelling public. The overarching objective is to get more people to use public transport. I have already pointed to the improvements that have been made.

In respect of the Deputy's reference to the National Transport Authority, NTA, the authority stands ready to intervene with regard to rural Ireland, if required to do so, to ensure public transport connectivity if commercial services are reconfigured following the discussions that take place between the management and the trade unions. The NTA has issued invitations to political parties and groups so that it can explain its role and responsibility in this area. Nobody, least of all the Government or the Minister, underestimates the difficulties Bus Éireann faces. However, these difficulties will not be resolved through media comment but through dialogue, discussion and negotiation.

The Taoiseach referred to access to the best quality services, but he does not say that he supports the principle of a publicly-owned transport company such as Bus Éireann. Does he believe in the principle of having a public transport company? That is an important policy principle he might clarify.

There is a real doubt and suspicion with regard to the Minister's inputs. There has been a clean out of the former management. Four or five weeks ago we were told that Expressway was the real issue but, subsequently, it has become the entire company. With the use of terms such as "insolvency" matters have ratcheted up, culminating in the premature move to the Labour Court yesterday by the management side. That move backfired. It appears that something is afoot. People such as the Minister and others are saying their fingerprints are on nothing and they are not involved, yet everybody thinks their fingerprints are well and truly on a policy that is being pursued to a degree by stealth. A little more transparency from all would be welcome. The convening of all-round talks on the policy issues and routes would go a long way towards beginning on a pathway to resolving this issue.

I assure the Deputy that nothing is afoot.

The central issue is the Expressway service and the losses accumulating there every year, despite the fact that the subvention has increased to €35 million this year, an increase of 17%. There was some preliminary engagement with the Labour Court yesterday, the focus of which was on procedural requirements relating to future discussions. The Minister is very anxious that management and unions sit down and negotiate on the central issue, which is the commercial loss-making end of the Expressway service. The NTA has a different role and responsibility here.

The Minister has pointed out that in the event of Expressway services being reconfigured, where it impacts on rural Ireland the NTA is available to provide connectivity to those rural areas. This will also be impacted on in part by the publication and implementation of the programme to deal with the potential of rural Ireland. It is a serious matter but central policy is that more travelling people should use the public bus services. Improvements have been made during recent years including new frequencies, new routes and increased competitiveness. However, the central issue is commercial and I hope management and unions can continue to negotiate on it, if necessary through the mechanisms of the State and the Labour Court.