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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

US travel ban and Irish response

Summary

Deputies Micheál Martin and Gerry Adams condemn President Trump’s travel ban and refugee order as morally wrong and discriminatory, urging an all-party motion and direct action from the Taoiseach. The Taoiseach says the legal position is evolving, diplomatic contact has been made, and he will raise Ireland’s concerns publicly and in Washington.

Ireland and the United States of America have always had a very special and historical relationship and all efforts should be focused on maintaining that. That said, the events of the past seven days have left people extremely concerned about what is happening. Apart from the casual attempt to humiliate the Mexican President, there has been an executive order essentially arbitrarily banning from the United States millions of people from seven different nations on the basis of religion and nationality. This is completely unacceptable. It stigmatises an entire religion and associates it with terrorism and mayhem. It is also dangerous in that it emboldens others to act against people of the Muslim faith. The ban contravenes the Geneva Convention and offends our concept of human decency, our values and religious liberty.

It is striking to note the contrast between how the world reacted to the refugee question after the Second World War and how the world today, particularly democracies, is reacting. After the Second World War, we had open doors whereas democracies are now closing their doors to genuine refugees from war-torn areas. In that context, it is very heartening to see the Jewish community standing shoulder to shoulder with their Muslim brethren in defending them against this particular ban.

There is no logic to the ban in terms of what it sets out to achieve. As a matter of fact, US born citizens have been responsible for the majority of the heinous terrorist acts that have occurred on US soil. America was built on immigration and refugees, which have been an essential ingredient in the entrepreneurial flair and economic development that occurred in the United States. It is interesting that many of the major companies in the technology industry, for example, Google, Facebook, Lyft, Airbnb and Viber, have given large donations to the American Civil Liberties Union to fight cases and defend those who have been affected by the ban. The ban is damaging to America and the world.

I believe the Taoiseach should proceed with his visit to the United States. It is important in terms of the historical relationship I mentioned earlier. It is not just about a bowl of shamrock. I also believe the pre-clearance facility should be maintained because to get rid of it would be to disadvantage the more than 1.5 million who travel on an annual basis.

We need a commitment from the Taoiseach that he will state publicly that the ban is morally wrong and violates the Geneva Convention in respect of refugees and discriminates on the basis of religion and nationality. Does the Taoiseach accept that and will he say so in those terms? Has the Taoiseach written to President Trump conveying the Government's opposition to this executive order and has he asked him to repeal it? If not, will he commit to so doing? Will the Taoiseach agree to an all-party motion strongly opposing this ban and conveying our Parliament's unified and unanimous opposition to it?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

On 27 January the President of the United States signed an executive order expressed to be done under the powers vested in him under the US Constitution and the laws of the United States, including the Immigration and Nationality Act, INA. The precise meaning of a number of the provisions of the executive order is uncertain. Federal judges in Brooklyn, Massachusetts, Virginia and Washington have issued rulings preventing persons claiming refugee status being sent back to their home countries and the removal or deportation from the United States of persons claiming refugee status pending full court hearings. The legal position is evolving, as we are now aware. On Sunday, 29 January, the Chief of Staff stated that green card holders from the seven banned countries would not be prevented from returning to the United States, going forward. This appeared to be a reversal of one of the key components of the executive order made the previous Friday. In the case of holders of dual nationality and dual passports, clarifications have issued from the USA in the past 24 hours to the effect that if the holder uses his or her passport from the country not listed in the executive order he or she will be entitled to be admitted to the USA. The legality of the executive order and US immigration rules are entirely a matter for the US courts.

Deputy Martin will be aware that Ireland has granted citizenship to approximately 5,000 people from the seven countries involved. Therefore, they have Irish passports and, for instance, Syrian passports. Clarification has now been received to the effect that if one of those persons presents an Irish passport at the point of pre-clearance either in Dublin or Shannon, it is on that passport he or she will be judged and will not be refused entry to the United States. There are a number of important points to be made on this issue. The rights available to refugees or persons wishing to seek asylum in Ireland remain unchanged. Those applying for asylum having arrived in this country or having been transit passengers withdraw from or do not succeed in getting pre-clearance will be considered in each case under the International Protection Act 2015. In other words, if they are turned back at US immigration in Dublin or Shannon and they come back into the Irish setting they are then dealt with under the International Protection Act 2015. As I said, the situation with regard to dual Irish-prohibited states nationals has been clarified. On presentation of an Irish passport they will not be hindered from entering the United States.

Ireland will continue to consider any immigration matters arising from the executive order in line with Irish law. I intend to go to the United States to speak directly to the US President. This morning, the Cabinet was fully in favour of retaining our pre-clearance facility and the Attorney General has confirmed that the issue in so far as the legality is concerned is a matter for the United States courts. In so far as Ireland is concerned, we are in compliance with human rights legislation and in accordance with our own Constitution. Pre-clearance is an important element for Ireland and it is available in Shannon and Dublin. Many other airports have sought it. I have already condemned torture and breaches of human rights in any country around the world and will continue to do so very vociferously.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach has not answered any of the specific questions I put to him. The essential issue is the moral authority that governs the enactment of the executive order. I asked the Taoiseach if he would publicly state that the ban is morally wrong and violates the Geneva Convention in respect of refugees and discriminates on the basis of religion and nationality.

Does the Taoiseach accept that is the essence of the executive order? We could discuss legal clarity and the evolution of the legal issues but the fundamental point is that there was political intent militating against the populations of the seven nations. This is unacceptable in terms of how democracies operate and behave. I refer in particular to a country such as the United States, which, as I have said, was built on immigration, religious freedom and civil liberties. The order offends those very concepts.

I asked the Taoiseach whether he would agree to an all-party motion strongly opposing this executive order. I asked him whether he wrote to President Trump. He might confirm whether he did. Does he intend to write to him? Will he write to him conveying the Government's opposition? I have heard about concern and heard the Taoiseach stating he has examined this, that and the other but I have not heard the fact that this is wrong being clearly articulated.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I do not object to an all-party motion provided we can come to an agreement on it. I do not want circumstances in which we are expected to have all-party motions every week. There have been a number of executive orders signed in the first ten days of the US presidency. As a member of the Government, I have condemned torture, waterboarding and breaches of human rights around the world. I have not written to the US President because I intend to visit him in the Oval Office in the White House and say my piece publicly - both before and then. President Trump is well used to disagreements and will obviously have many more in the time ahead.

This is not just about visits to the US President, as Deputy Martin knows. We have very long-established traditions with the United States. We were those emigrants who first saw Miss Liberty appearing out of the Hudson fog and said we had realised our ambition to be able to go to the United States. We want to hold on to pre-clearance, and that is subject to the international agreement between the two parties.

I fully agree that it is not righteous or correct policy to ban on the basis of country, nationality or creed. I have said that publicly already. If the drafting of an all-party motion can be achieved, I will have no objection to it. This is an issue that affects people from all over the world. I am merely pointing out, in the context of pre-clearance and the position of our people here in Ireland, the clarifications that are evolving from the White House in respect of the order issued by the US President.

Comment on this

I also wish to raise with the Taoiseach the executive order introduced by US President Donald Trump last week to halt the US refugee programme and the introduction by him of a travel ban for nationals from seven Muslim majority countries. If we can get agreement on an all-party motion, Sinn Féin will be up for that. This executive order is a breach of EU and UN obligations, in addition to being a subversion of acceptable standards of decency and equality.

It is disappointing that the Taoiseach has yet to raise this matter with the US Administration. He should have expressed his opposition to the blanket 90-day travel ban for nationals from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. He should have made it clear that he will not be implementing this executive order at pre-clearance centres in Dublin and Shannon. This order will certainly undermine efforts to improve relationships between those of all faiths and nationalities throughout the world.

As the Taoiseach just said, generations of Irish fled starvation, poverty and conflict here to make a new life and contribute to building America. Millions of them and their descendants are still there. Let us note that they are among the most outraged over these recent months. This Dáil should note that very many Americans are opposed to President Trump's policies.

The Taoiseach should have acted more decisively on this matter. I acknowledge he has initiated a review, which is welcome, but the Government's primary responsibility must be to ensure this fundamentally unjust order is not used in Irish airports. I would like the Taoiseach to make that clear in his response. He needs to introduce measures, if necessary, to ensure no one is a victim of discrimination and that no international or domestic law is broken. He needs to ensure that this State's obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights and other international agreements are fully observed.

There have been widespread protests in the USA and an understandable and justifiable international outcry at the actions of the Trump Administration. Will the Taoiseach take this opportunity to advise the undocumented Irish in the USA not to be alarmed by recent developments? Like the Taoiseach, I know from my contacts that many people there are frightened for their futures. Will the Taoiseach meet them when he travels to the USA? His primary focus has to be to engage with the diaspora, stand with the undocumented Irish and maintain our strong ties with Irish America, particularly as regards the ongoing process of change on this island. Will the Taoiseach assert clearly the Irish people's total opposition in the strongest possible terms to the racist, anti-women and anti-immigration policies of President Trump?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Yes. Deputy Adams speaks about contact with the Administration. Obviously, diplomatic contact has been made. We have had clarification from the Customs and Border Protection people in respect of the matters I mentioned. Clearly, this is a matter of serious concern not just for Irish people or for those holding dual nationalities and dual passports here, but for people from all over the world.

The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, is on his way to Washington today and will be speaking with Speaker Ryan tomorrow in respect of this matter. Clearly, Congress has a serious issue to deal with in terms of its discussions about this particular order.

I intend to meet the undocumented Irish in Washington and other locations, as will every Minister who travels to America for the St. Patrick's week celebrations, the St. Patrick's week presentations and so on.

No person is vulnerable to being deported from here or being removed from the country because, under section 12 of the Aviation (Preclearance) Act 2009, if people are turned back at a preclearance facility either in Shannon or in Dublin and are looking for refugee status or whatever, they are then dealt with under Irish law. We are fully compliant with the international norms and requirements on us. Obviously, we have had legal advice in respect of that at Government level.

We have made this point and will continue to make it very clearly, as other leaders around the world will do, that blanket bans on any country on the basis of religion are not morally acceptable. I disagree entirely with the policy that has been laid out. Clarifications are evolving and some have been given in the past 24 hours to us here from the Customs and Border Protection personnel in Washington, who have been contacted formally by Ireland.

There are typically 325,000 passengers arriving in the United States every day. While all passengers can be subject to secondary screening, usually fewer than 1% are referred for such screening. The US authorities are very conscious of the good relationship that has existed between Ireland and the US for very many reasons and for very many years. They are fully aware of the preclearance facilities and their value and they are anxious that they would be continued for the future, as are we. We want to be perfectly clear, however, that we are fully compliant with human rights legislation. There is no infringement in that regard and the issues that are arising now legally are strictly a matter for the American courts.

Comment on this

I am still disappointed that the Taoiseach has not raised his opposition to this ban directly with the Trump Administration. I wrote to the Taoiseach last week about this. I also wrote to President Trump. The Taoiseach could have done the same. He is the Taoiseach and represents the people of this State.

The celebration of St. Patrick's Day in the USA is not the province of any US President, tradition or political party. These celebrations are inclusive and they cover a wide range of opinions, ethnic backgrounds and people of all colours and creeds. Sinn Féin has played a positive role in building and supporting Ireland's relationship with the USA. We will continue to do so.

However, we have also consistently criticised successive Administrations on their policies, both publicly and directly with Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama. Our main engagement is with Irish America. It is the bridge between this island and the people in the USA. Many of them are as appalled as anyone else by the racist, anti-women and anti-immigration policies of President Trump. Does the Taoiseach agree that as well as standing up to and against President Trump's unacceptable policies, we need to keep building support within the USA for the process of change in our own country? That is not something the Government has done in the past. I ask the Taoiseach to commit to doing that in a better way in the future.

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I reject that assertion from Deputy Adams. We have been very active over many years in dealing with the Administrations and members of the opposition in the United States. He is aware that I have had the privilege in recent years of being in Washington for St. Patrick's Day. It is not just about meeting the President but the Vice President, the Speaker of the House, the Irish caucus, members of the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, the immigrant associations, the emigrant associations, the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, ILIR, the United States Chamber of Commerce, the Irish diaspora and so many other elements of Irish United States business.

Comment on this

Will the Taoiseach give them a vote?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Every single person who represents us in this case will do the same in the United States right across America. It is more important than ever before that Ireland's voice would be heard and that we stand up for values and integrity. We were those people for two and a half centuries. I will stand up for the undocumented Irish. If they are to make America great, they have every right to pursue a legitimate policy of becoming US citizens, if that is their wish. I will not leave 50,000 of them isolated and on their own this St. Patrick's week.

Comment on this

Is the Taoiseach going to give them the vote?

Comment on this
Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is more important than ever that Ireland's voice would be heard. Right across America we have influence and we will use it in a right and proper fashion.

Comment on this

Will the Taoiseach write to President Trump?

Comment on this