Water charges and committee process
Deputy McDonald attacks the Government and Fianna Fáil over water charges, saying the election and the Oireachtas favoured abolition rather than suspension. The Taoiseach defends the committee process and says legislation will follow the Oireachtas committee’s deliberations, while exchanges continue over whether charges will be scrapped and then turn briefly to interruption and heckling.
Almost one year ago to the day, citizens went to the polls and voted in a general election. The majority of Deputies elected to this Dáil were elected clearly and comprehensively to end punitive water charging. That was the decision of the people. The Fianna Fáil Party, despite its ever shifting policy positions, also made this commitment. The expert commission on water services was dreamt up as a fig leaf to get Fianna Fáil off the hook of its commitments and secure its support for the Government. Since then, Fianna Fáil has tried everything to change its stance but the resolve of those involved in Right2Water has forced it to a point where it either puts up or shuts up.
I listened this morning to Deputy Willie O'Dea refusing to rule out water charges by the back door and peddling the myth surrounding excessive use for which there is absolutely no evidence. It remains to be seen what the Fianna Fáil position will be. Sinn Féin, on the other hand, has been clear all along - no water charges-----
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-----by the front door or the back door. That is now the emerging view of the Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services, which was set up to produce recommendations on this issue. The Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Simon Coveney, established that process, which is drawing to a conclusion. At the time, the Minister stated he wanted to take the heat out of the water charges debate and let the Oireachtas have its say.
The Government is losing the argument. Yesterday evening, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, intervened in a most inappropriate manner in an attempt to influence the committee's work before it concludes. Essentially, he is trying to shoehorn the committee with exaggerated claims of the supposed illegality of the abolition of water charges. The Minister should stop interfering in the work of this committee immediately. He should adhere to the process he set up and respect the outcome of it. One wonders whether the Minister's new tough guy stance has more to do with the leadership battle within Fine Gael than anything else.
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Deputy McDonald would know plenty about that.
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The coalition agreement of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, a copy of which I have here, states that the Government will legislate for the abolition of water charges if that is the position of the Oireachtas but the Minister, Deputy Coveney, it seems, has set his face against this. He said that he will breach the process he established and he will not - I emphasise he will not - legislate to scrap the water charges. Is that the Taoiseach's position also? Does he also refuse to accept the will of the Oireachtas and to legislate to abolish water charges?
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We did a lot while Deputy Durkan was away temporarily.
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The Fine Gael Party is a democratic party. We are not in the position of being able to anoint or appoint people who we choose to be leaders.
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The Deputy should bear that in mind. The Oireachtas established a special Oireachtas committee to deliberate on the recommendations of an expert commission on water. That is what the committee is doing. Essentially, it is considering the abolition of general water charges. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, set out a number of principles which reflect the Fine Gael Party's view and position on this issue, including that we should have a water metering capacity, a generous allowance and a charge for wilful and excessive use and waste of water. They are important principles. What is provided for in the Fine Gael Party agreement with Fianna Fáil is that the Oireachtas committee would consider the recommendations of the expert commission and make recommendations to the Oireachtas, following which the Oireachtas would consider those recommendations and vote on the matter within one month of the conclusion of the deliberations.
I know that the Chairman circulated a paper yesterday. The committee continues is deliberations and will meet this afternoon to consider that paper. I am sure that even Deputy McDonald will understand that in this country it is not proper to allow the wilful wastage of water for which the taxpayer pays. The 2007 Act does not cover that, in my view. As stated by the Minister, Deputy Coveney, the committee is entitled to continue its deliberations on the recommendations of the expert commission and to bring forward its conclusions to the Oireachtas. We await its conclusions, on which we will have a discussion in the Oireachtas and then vote on the matter. The Minister was entitled to set out a number of principles yesterday.
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The wilful waste of water is the fault of the infrastructure and successive Governments, of which the Taoiseach's party and his partners, the Fianna Fáil Party, have been lead exponents, and not, as suggested by the Taoiseach, the result of the population with wild abandon wilfully wasting water. This matter was settled last year at the ballot box. The democratic view of the people was that water charges be abolished, not suspended. That is the considered view of the people. It is also a view mirrored in the Oireachtas. A commitment was given to respect that democratic view.
Now it seems, however, that the Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, knows better than the Oireachtas and the people who voted. In fact, he does not. It is imperative that the Minister and the Taoiseach respect the wishes of the people, as democratically expressed. I want an answer to the question I asked earlier and which I will repeat. Is the Taoiseach prepared to legislate for the abolition of water charges? Will he give a "Yes" or a "No" answer to indicate his position?
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-----that the Government will facilitate the legislation that is necessary following the deliberations of the Oireachtas arising from the report of the expert group. That is what we have agreed to do and what we will follow. As I said, the committee is considering the views of the commission. Clearly, a compromise is available and where we are is considering the issue of the wilful wastage of water. The Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, has at his disposal legal advice that is very strong and clear. I realise the Deputy and her party colleagues have their eyes on power down here. I am sure that if she ever sits on these benches as Minister for whatever - although perhaps I cannot guarantee it in her party's case - she will not be putting through legislation where she has very strong legal advice that it is illegal to do so.
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Is that a "Yes" or a "No"? It sounds like a "No".
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We set up an arrangement for an Oireachtas committee to deliberate on these matters. The committee is meeting again this afternoon to continue its work.
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Will the Taoiseach answer "Yes" or "No"?
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I have a strong aversion, like most people in the country, to a situation where there can be wilful wastage of water and an expectation that the general taxpayer will pay for it.
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The Government does not even know how many private swimming pools there are.