Eighth amendment referendum timeline
Deputy Ryan asked for a timeline for a referendum on repealing the eighth amendment and raised broader constitutional concerns. The Tánaiste said the matter had gone to the Citizens’ Assembly, outlined the expected sequence of reports and committee consideration, and said the Business Committee would then decide the Dáil timetable.
Will the Tánaiste give us her assessment of a detailed timeline of when we will hold a referendum regarding the repeal of the eighth amendment to the Constitution? I have seen quotes attributed to the Tánaiste, and I hope I do quote her incorrectly, that I agree with. The Tánaiste said "the Constitution is not the place to resolve complex issues like this". She went on to say that "it would be more meaningful to talk about what do you replace it with". I agree with both statements. We will vote in different ways on the Bill introduced by Bríd Smith, which the Green Party co-signed. I fundamentally sense that a 14-year prison sentence, which we have at present, is just a sign of the latest legal iteration of the difficulties that the original eighth amendment has caused.
We may be in agreement, though others may not, that the Citizens' Assembly has been doing very useful work. I believe that process has been helpful in terms of allowing people to come in to share ideas and views. Its members have one meeting to go and then they have a certain period of time to present their information to the House. A lot of people marched yesterday. Looking at how we do other things here, such as the water issue, which has gone to a similar Oireachtas committee to the one proposed for a referendum on repealing the eighth amendment, there is a tendency here for timelines to slip. People are already saying that there will not be a referendum this year and that it will more likely be next year. I believe it is important for us to have a reasoned debate and to respect both sides. That is how I come to any discussion. I have friends on both sides and with a whole range of different views.
I believe it is important for us to give some sense of direction around times. I would be interested to hear the Tánaiste's personal views as to what the timeline is. How long will an Oireachtas committee be given to report back? Is it just the committee that will be involved in that process or are there other mechanisms by which Members could share their views? In the forming of a preferred option for the Government, how might the Government work with the other sides of the House? There are different views on all sides of this House on this issue. I believe it will better serve our people if we can have an approach on the referendum that continues in the House the dialogue that has occurred in the Citizens' Assembly. How do we do that? How do we achieve a reasoned debate in our public dealings?
Critically at this stage more than anything else, when will that happen? This Government's timeline is also in the public's mind. There is a real risk that we will end up frustrating a lot of people on all sides of the argument if we cannot order our business on this issue in a way that sees that work done within the lifetime of this Dáil. I would argue that that is a real risk at this stage. I am interested to hear the views of the Tánaiste. She has played a long role in women's issues in this State. As Tánaiste, she has a critical position. Can she provide us her detailed assessment of a timeline? When would a referendum be held and how do we get there?
Comment on this
With regard to the Bill before the House, the idea of a €1 sanction for the intentional destruction of human life and of a Bill that would take away all discretion from a judge who would be dealing with such matters is not the direction we should go in. I believe that taking away all discretion from a trial judge is completely wrong. I believe that that Bill would protect abusers and people who order abortifacients over the Internet and use them inappropriately. That is certainly not the direction for us to go in. I do not believe this issue should be dealt with in a piecemeal fashion by changing some of the legislation we have in place at present.
As the Deputy said, this is an extremely complex issue. I recognise the very deeply-held views on every side of this. We all care deeply about this issue. I was part of the last Government that dealt with this issue for the first time properly in legislation through the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013, which regulated access to a termination of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk from a threat to her physical or mental health. We all know there are many concerns at present for women, particularly regarding fatal foetal abnormality, cases of rape, incest, as well as very complex issues we undoubtedly need to address in this House.
The Government has set up the Citizens' Assembly. Like the Deputy, I pay tribute to the work of that assembly. It has been extremely thorough. We will certainly all have to get the full report from that Citizens' Assembly in order to be as well informed as the members of that assembly are at present following the detailed discussions they have had. It has been a very worthwhile process. It will be extremely worthwhile to see what they recommend. The assembly has dealt with it as the first issue on its agenda at the request of the Government. That is important. The issue has been debated many times in this House over the past number of years but the approach the Government has taken at present is to establish the Citizens' Assembly to review Article 40.3.3°. I certainly look forward to the outcome of that examination of Article 40.3.3° and to participating in the arrangements we will make in the Oireachtas. Clearly, we have said that we will set up a special committee. We have had good precedence with regard to that. The committee that Senator Buttimer chaired at the time had very respectful and inclusive discussions. I expect that is what will happen based on the outcome of the report from the Citizens' Assembly, which will be with us in the near future. It will then be up to the Oireachtas committee, the Business Committee and all of us to consider the best way forward in terms of the discussions in the House and whether a referendum will follow from that.
Comment on this
I will not get into an argument today about the Bill before the House, save to note that while I respect the Tánaiste's view, I have a similar competing view that a 14-year sentence is not appropriate in our Statute Book. I will put that matter aside. The Tánaiste's party has a particular responsibility in this issue given that it was her party that introduced the original referendum in 1983 against the advice of the Attorney General at the time, who saw, articulated and raised concerns about the legal difficulties that it would present. I do not disagree with anything the Tánaiste said after that.
I return, however, to the core question. I believe it is important for Deputy Fitzgerald, as Tánaiste, Minister for Justice and Equality and as a women who has played an important role in the whole issue of women's affairs, to outline what her expected timeline is for the referendum. It is important to get a calm and good quality debate in public, as well as within the Citizens' Assembly and in the Oireachtas committee. There must be some sort of understanding among members of the public as to what the timeline is. Can the Tánaiste address that key single question I asked? What is her expectation as to when a referendum might be held? Given that the Tánaiste said that the Constitution is not the right place to address complex issues like this, when does she intend to rectify that matter?
Comment on this
Let us look at what the Government has done already. The matter has been referred to the Citizens' Assembly. The timeline we are operating to at present is that we will have the report from the Citizens' Assembly in the first half of 2017. It will then be referred to the committee, which will be expected to report back within six months. That is the current timeline that we have, which brings us towards the end of this year. It will then be a matter for the Business Committee to decide how the issue will be taken forward in the Dáil for further Oireachtas deliberations. Those are the details of the timeline that we have at present. The report from the Citizens' Assembly is due in the first half of 2017, the special Oireachtas committee is to report back within six months and then other decisions will follow from that, including the very important debate here in the House.