Over recent days I have had the honour and privilege of meeting some very fine Irish men and women on the Bus Éireann picket lines. One of them, Tommy St. Ledger in Broadstone, has worked 51 years of his life in Bus Éireann and is due to retire in June on a glorious pension of €97 a week, having given his entire adult life and some of his childhood to Bus Éireann. Rory, from the Taoiseach's neck of the woods in the west, takes home approximately €600 a week, and that includes all the premiums and his overtime. He is a man who has a growing family, some in college. Michael, who is a new worker, takes home approximately €450 a week, and that includes all his premiums. He is a young man with a mortgage and children so small he is now doing picket duty in the evenings to avoid having to pay child care while he is on strike.

I want the Taoiseach to answer this question directly. Does he believe anyone could justify taking 30% of the wages of those three people I have given him as examples? That is what is being proposed by Bus Éireann in its attack on the pay and conditions of workers throughout the country.

There is a crisis in the company. I will not stand here and deny there is a deficit and a crisis. However, it is not a crisis like a volcanic eruption in Iceland or a storm hitting the west coast of Ireland. It is not a force of nature. It is a crisis created by this and previous Governments, and I will stand over that statement. The National Transport Authority, for which the Taoiseach's Cabinet has responsibility, has deliberately swamped the main bus routes between the cities, such as Dublin-Limerick, Dublin-Cork, Dublin-Galway etc., with private operators. It has over-licensed beyond capacity and beyond 100% of what is needed.

At the same time, this Government and the previous one have consistently cut the subsidy to Bus Éireann. The subsidy Bus Éireann gets as a public transport company is 12%. Guess how much public transport receives by way of subsidy in Belgium. In Belgium, a subsidy of 78% is allocated to run public transport. The figure for Holland is 49%. Ireland gives its public transport companies a lower subsidy than do most developed European countries. In addition, we subsidise a social function of the transport sector to allow for free travel. I have a letter here from the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, which clearly shows we give to the private operators a subsidy of 70% for that free travel and 40% to Bus Éireann. This is not a level playing field.

The crisis in Bus Éireann has been manufactured consistently and continually by this Government and the previous one. Then there is the extraordinary situation of a Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, who is on a multiple of the wages of these people who work hard day in, day out, saying a national transport strike is nothing to do with him. He is the Minister with responsibility for transport but says he will not intervene in a national transport strike.

I have two questions for the Taoiseach. I ask him to explain that last position. How does his Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport not have anything to do with a national transport strike? Can the Taoiseach justify a cut of 30% to the wages of the people whose earnings I have just described?

It is important to note that the trade unions and the management of Bus Éireann - both sides - have publicly acknowledged that there are efficiency issues in Bus Éireann. This is precisely why the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, is still available for talks to resolve the dispute. It will not be resolved on the streets. It will only be resolved around the table, where all strikes are resolved. This is exactly the opportunity to sort out the dispute which the Minister, Deputy Ross, has identified on so many occasions.

I understand Deputy Smith's legitimate comment about the drivers and those who work for Bus Éireann. Last year, the taxpayer provided €230 million to Bus Éireann across the public service obligation, PSO, scheme, the free travel scheme, the capital and the school transport funding programmes, and that is a significant amount of money which has been increasing over recent years. Funding for the public service obligation units has increased over the past two budgets, but subvention is provided only for the PSO services. It cannot, by law, be provided for a commercial service such as Expressway, and this is where the difficulty is. This is a dispute within Bus Éireann involving, among other matters, the commercial Expressway service. One union has announced it will ballot members in other companies which are not party to this dispute. I hope that does not happen because the opportunity remains for the unions and the management of Bus Éireann to get together. The Minister, Deputy Ross, is playing his part-----

What is he doing?

-----by increasing PSO funding. The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, is doing his by examining the funding of the free travel scheme.

Next year.

Where the Minister, Deputy Ross, can act and where it is appropriate to do so, he has done so.

Realistic negotiations between management and the unions are required to solve these internal issues, and that opportunity is available to them at the WRC. Very many people are inconvenienced by the dispute. It is causing much stress for people who have lost access to any public transport at all in many areas of the country. The point has been made that the resolution of and solution to the dispute is at the table of the WRC. Both sides have admitted that there are efficiency issues to be addressed. Both sides should have the courage to go back to the table again and attempt to resolve any differences in the consideration of these efficiencies. That is where the solution lies. Obviously, the Government is very interested to see that the strike should end and that people should be able again to avail of the services Bus Éireann provides, which is what the company does best. Those services need to be provided in such a way that the issue of the loss-making Expressway entity is dealt with. The WRC is the place to deal with the matter.

The Taoiseach's answer that this is commercial competition flags up why this is of interest to every transport worker not just Bus Éireann workers. The NTA has deliberately forced Bus Éireann into an uneven playing field of competition with the private operator to drag down the wages and conditions of workers. This will apply to Dublin Bus, DART and Irish Rail. If the NTA and the Government manage to drag people down in Bus Éireann, they will drag them down everywhere. This strike is of interest to other transport workers and it is indeed of interest to the public in general who are suffering as a result of the strike but will suffer more if the Taoiseach and the Government gets its way and diminishes the jobs and conditions of public transport workers. Will the Taoiseach come out to the gates with me at 1 p.m. tomorrow and welcome the hundreds of bus, rail and DART workers who will be there to tell the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport that he cannot wipe his hands of this? The Minister is involved, as are the Government and the NTA. They must participate in the solution to this strike and crisis. The power is on the streets. It will be outside the gates at 1 p.m. tomorrow. If the Minister does not listen to that, a national transport strike will be required and he will have to listen to DART, Dublin Bus and Luas workers, and train drivers when they down tools and say workers will not be dragged down by a race to the bottom by the policies of this Government. The Minister must get involved.

The Minister will be before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport tomorrow at the time the protest is taking place. The Government has increased the public service obligation, PSO, funding by €28 million in each of the past two years.

It is still below 2009 levels.

Today is 28 March-----

Well below.

-----the fifth day of all out strike at Bus Éireann. The biggest impact is on Bus Éireann's PSO network because on the Expressway network, which is the root cause of this particular problem, there are other competitors who take up the slack when Bus Éireann is not there.

They are cherry-picking because the Government allows them to.

The Expressway service, which is the root cause of this problem-----

I have a letter from the NTA encouraging others to go out and break this strike. The Government's policy is encouraging strike-breaking.

-----is least affected by this.

It is outrageous.

The Expressway service is least affected because there are other buses travelling on that route. Apart from some spillover strike action on Friday which impacted on Iarnród Éireann, the other CIE companies have been unaffected.

It will be more than a spillover. The Taoiseach has not explained why the Minister for Social Protection gives private operators a 70% subsidy.

SIPTU announced on Monday that it will ballot its members on Dublin Bus and Iarnród Éireann for industrial action.

The Taoiseach still has not explained why the Minister for Social Protection gives them a subsidy of 70%.

No date for balloting has been set but people are perfectly entitled to protest and protest can send powerful signals, when it is legitimate of course.

So the Taoiseach will come out and say hello.

The solution and resolution of this strike does not lie outside the gates of Leinster House but around the WRC table. Both sides have admitted that there are issues that need to be discussed. That is the opportunity for them to discuss those, at the WRC.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport has to be at that table.

The Deputy knows that a Minister cannot sit at that table because everybody else would then say the Government is stepping in for all of these issues. The Deputy knows that very well.

He is the Minister for transport.

The Minister is doing his duty with the PSO by increasing it. The Minister for Social Protection is doing it in terms of the rural transport scheme. The unions and management say there are efficiency matters that need to be discussed and the place to discuss those is at the WRC table.

There is a 30% pay cut for Michael and the workers I described.