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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Water charges and committee report

Summary

Deputy McDonald argues the water committee’s draft report would abolish charges, end metering and enable a referendum, and she accuses the Government of trying to derail it. The Taoiseach says the committee must be left to deliberate, rejects her claim of victory, and the exchange descends into barbs over Sinn Féin’s past stance and support for water charges.

As the Taoiseach knows, the Joint Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services is meeting to discuss what was supposed to be its final draft report on the future of water services. The recommendations of that report represented a very significant victory for all those who have opposed domestic water charges and the privatisation agenda at the heart of the Government's water policy. On the basis of that version of the report, domestic water charges would be abolished, the metering programme would be scrapped, and the people would have their say, by way of a referendum, on a constitutional guarantee for the public ownership of water services.

The overriding message from the final draft report is that our water supply is not some commodity to be eventually auctioned off by the current Government or any other.

However, it now emerges that Fine Gael and the relevant Minister, Deputy Coveney, will not under any circumstances accept the democratic will of the people or the Oireachtas. The Taoiseach wants to preserve the possibility of water charges through the back door. The Taoiseach wants to maintain the possibility of privatisation at some future date. The bully boys of the Government wish now to sabotage the work of the committee. Like all bullies, they cannot accept when they have lost. Indeed, they are now trying to bully their friends in Fianna Fáil into a U-turn. Indeed, it seems they are trying to bully the people into accepting the Government's water policy.

When will the Taoiseach get it into his head that this is never going to happen? The argument on water has been won on the streets by thousands of protesters who marched at countless demonstrations to defend their rights. It has been won by the majority of Deputies who ran for election to this Dáil on an anti-water-charges platform. It was won for a third time at the Joint Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services.

The Taoiseach cannot ignore that reality. The people have spoken loud and clear. They turned up in their thousands again on Saturday to reinforce their demands. The Taoiseach has lost. The matter has been settled on the streets by protest, in politics at the general election and in the Oireachtas at the water committee. The draft report, as it stood this morning, met the demands and the democratically-expressed views of the people. That cannot be casually swept under the carpet to suit the Taoiseach's political agenda. The Taoiseach's behaviour - and that of the Government - in particular, his refusal to accept defeat on the issue of water, represents a real crisis in terms of democratic representation. It is time for the Taoiseach to finally listen up: it is over. The Taoiseach has lost and the people have won. It is time for the Taoiseach to be gracious in defeat. Will the Taoiseach now stop undermining the democratic process in the Oireachtas and accept the demands of the people?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I think Deputy McDonald is a little ahead of herself. As I understand it, the legal counsel is due before the Oireachtas committee in the next five minutes - it is just up ahead of us - to discuss certain matters with the committee. I do not have a report from the Oireachtas committee. Deputy McDonald had a draft report. The committee members are entitled to have their deliberations. They are fully entitled to have their legal advice. They are fully entitled to make their decision in their own way.

Deputy McDonald speaks of victory, loss and winning. She only sees things in such colours, whereby no one has to pay for anything. Deputy McDonald should believe me that water is a precious resource and someone has to pay for it at the end of the day. Someone has to pay for its treatment and all of that.

As I understand it, the committee at this point has agreed there should be a referendum on water and that it should be retained in public ownership by virtue of a vote on the Constitution. Therefore, the nonsense that Deputy McDonald is going on with about some sinister attempt to privatise Irish Water is only that – nonsense.

I would advise Deputy McDonald, with respect, to allow the Oireachtas committee to do its job. She should listen to the advice of the legal officer who is about to address the committee members in the coming minutes and she should await the findings of the Oireachtas committee.

I hope that a conclusion can be reached because for years and years, people have been able to and have paid for water. In the vast majority of cases, they have been happy to receive high-quality water indeed. Be that as it may, the committee has made substantial progress. I await the final deliberations of the committee members. I hope that we can let them conclude these in the spirit of the responsibility that they were given by the Oireachtas.

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I respectfully suggest it is in fact the Taoiseach and the Government that needs to allow the committee to get on with its work.

The Taoiseach is fully aware that his Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, has intervened in a most inappropriate and very direct way with the findings and the draft report. Today, we have round two of the plan to sabotage the committee report, spearheaded by the Taoiseach's Government. They are the facts.

The Taoiseach does not have respect for people. He has no respect for the people who have marched in their tens of thousands to set out very clearly their demands in respect of water. The Taoiseach has no respect for people elected to this Oireachtas either, it seems. He deliberately frustrated us since we came here to this Dáil from taking a vote on the matter of water charges on the floor of the House. The Taoiseach set up this committee. It does its work. The Taoiseach does not like its outcome so he has set about sabotaging that, largely, let it be said, by putting pressure on Fianna Fáil.

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Deputy Paul Murphy put pressure on Sinn Féin.

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Let me repeat for the Taoiseach what I asked originally. What the people on the streets at the weekend want to know is whether their Taoiseach is capable of listening, hearing, understanding and respecting their wishes. Today is the day he needs to make that clear. Will he respect the wishes of the people for the abolition of water charges, for the ending of the water metering programme and for the referendum? Will he commit to all of those elements? Will he assure us that he will back off and allow the committee to complete its work and take his foot off the neck of Fianna Fáil?

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Deputy Paul Murphy put his foot down on Sinn Féin.

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Where is Deputy Murphy now?

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We would expect and hope in that scenario that Fianna Fáil Members will stand firm on their democratic mandate. The people will not back down on this issue. Sinn Féin will not back down. Water charges are dead and over and it is time for the Taoiseach to accept that.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy's party has a particular use of certain words like "sabotage".

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Or "explosive".

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Paul Murphy sabotaged the Deputy's own party's view on this because Sinn Féin favoured water charges.

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Now Sinn Féin has changed its mind.

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Gerry said pay the bill. Remember?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The president and the leader said he would pay his water charges and everybody else nodded in unison. Then, the sound of marching in Tallaght changed Sinn Féin's view. Therefore, I ask the Deputy not to come in here as somebody who is right on everything and exuding righteousness on behalf of the people. The Government has made some serious decisions over recent years that have restored our economic well-being to a great extent, which has allowed two million people to take jobs, have lives and contribute to their country.

The Minister, Deputy Coveney, did not address the Oireachtas committee. He did not interfere with the Oireachtas committee.

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He wrote to it.

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He is allowed to write a letter.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He is perfectly entitled to send in correspondence. Now that they have become all lawful in the Sinn Féin Party, I am quite sure that they realise that the implications of some of the elements of what was being proposed might not be in compliance with the law. I am quite sure that Deputy McDonald wants to be in compliance with the law, as all of her party now proclaim in righteous tones every time I hear them speak.

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Not nearly as righteous as the Taoiseach.

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The Taoiseach is a disgrace.

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He is an absolute disgrace with comments like that.

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