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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions (Resumed)

Rural banking and services

Summary

Thomas Pringle raised Ulster Bank branch closures in Donegal, warning of the loss of banking facilities, further emigration and damage to rural Ireland. The Taoiseach pointed to the rural development programme, post office pilots, credit union support, rural broadband and community banking, saying the Government was investing in rural services.

Rural Ireland was dealt another blow recently when Ulster Bank announced plans to shut 22 branches between June and September of this year. Two of those branches are located in Ardara and Raphoe in my constituency of Donegal. Once they are closed, it will leave these rural towns without any form of banking facility at all.

Ulster Bank claims the restructuring of its services is required to meet the ongoing cost challenges of RBS, yet this is a flawed rationale. Ulster Bank had a recorded profit of €280 million in 2016 and paid a dividend of €1.5 billion to RBS.

The truth of the matter is that the banks are not interested in addressing the needs of communities. They will always be driven by profit margins, but while private sector banks restructure their businesses and move online, communities still need banking services to survive. How does the Taoiseach expect rural communities to restructure with them? They cannot, and rural communities will suffer as a result.

Banking services are vital to the survival of towns. Reports and studies have shown the consequences of banks retreating from rural communities, not only for customers but also for small business, which Fine Gael loves so much. In the UK, lending to SMEs has reduced by 64%, and the reduction is as much as 104% where the town has no bank left. A town received on average £1.6 million less in lending the year after a closure.

The Taoiseach will reply to me that Ulster Bank is not an Irish institution and the Government cannot intervene. I have already got that from the Minister for Finance. Let me remind the Taoiseach of the consequences facing rural Ireland because the Government refuses to intervene: an ongoing transport crisis, including the latest Bus Éireann dispute, Garda station closures, post office closures, delays in rolling out broadband, continued emigration, and banking closures.

While the Government may not be able to intervene in the latest bank closures, there are issues it can influence. In rural Ireland, we have a network of community banks called credit unions. The Government continues to hide behind the regulator who is doing nothing to facilitate them to develop in a way that can assist their communities and meet the needs of rural towns, for example, funding social housing projects or providing a range of banking services. It is as if, like Ulster Bank, the Government does not care about the needs of rural communities and the Government's policies reflect that in prioritising private sector banks over credit unions.

As well as Ulster Bank's announcement last week, we heard from An Post, in last night's "Prime Time", that it has identified 265 post offices as non-viable. No doubt we will see plans crystalising over the coming months seeking to close these too. Interestingly, McKinsey was consultants to both Ulster Bank and An Post and was the author of their strategies for nationwide closures. No wonder these strategies look so alike.

It is over two years since the Kerr report on the future of the post office network was published. What implementation have we seen by the Government? None. The Government has merely allowed the crisis to deepen. The Taoiseach can avoid taking any responsibility for Ulster Bank and the communities that are being devastated by the bank, but he cannot wring his hands and claim no responsibility for the destruction of the post office network and the continued stifling of credit unions.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Go raibh maith agat. The Taoiseach-----

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Will the Taoiseach get the finger out and take some action rather than publish more reports that will only gather dust, running down rural Ireland and forcing more emigration on our communities?

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Pringle will have another minute. The Taoiseach to respond.

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Enda Kenny Thomas Pringle Fine Gael

Deputy Pringle has set out the situation in so far as Ulster Bank is concerned. Deputy Pringle has not referred to the very substantial rural development programme that has been published by Government across all Departments which includes a direction for the provision of 135,000 jobs, out of 200,000 to be created over the next number of years in areas outside the greater Dublin region, including the Deputy's area.

Deputy Pringle is clear on his remarks about the post offices. The Deputy might like to know that between 2004 and 2010 there were 345 post offices closed. He did not refer to any of those at all. In the past five years, there have been 37 post offices closed. No post office will stay open unless people use it.

The Government has made a decision that there should be basic banking facilities made available in post offices, and we are working on that.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The assessment of the Minister of State, Deputy Ring-----

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Before he threw the towel in.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----of a pilot scheme for hubs to operate on the basis of four post offices to be determined was accepted by Government.

The credit unions are regulated by the Central Bank. Two reports on credit unions were produced. The Government has implemented them and is fully supportive of the credit unions all over the country. It is not true for the Deputy to say that the Government has no interest in rural Ireland - far from it. In fact, many of the major policies of this Government are focused directly on giving opportunity and incentive to rural Ireland, not least the recent announcement by the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment regarding the roll-out of national broadband. The review of the capital programme for the next number of years, which will provide opportunities for infrastructure throughout all parts of the country, including the Deputy's area, is under way. As a result, I do not accept at all his suggestion that the Government has reneged or is reneging on its commitment to rural Ireland. Every single regional sector has shown a growth in employment.

In respect of the Deputy's opening remarks about the way people do their business now, he should appreciate - as I am sure he does - that €14,000, I think, is now spent online every minute by people doing their business. The way people do their business has changed and it will not go back to the way it was. I cannot speak for Ulster Bank, but we do support the credit unions and the opportunity to provide basic banking facilities in post offices and to give them whatever services can be given. Post offices will not survive unless they are used by people. They cannot be locked away if everything is dealt with online. If they are social centres, which they are, and very important for communication, they must have a range of services that people will use and want to use because that is the lifeblood of business as well.

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Regarding the rural action plan, there is much plan and no action. Three months after its announcement, we face the possible closure of 265 post offices, reduced bus services and the scuppering of the national broadband plan by the Taoiseach's Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment. How does this reflect on the Government's action plan? It shows that no action is taking place. People cannot use post offices if the latter cannot provide services. That is the bottom line. Two years on from publication, the Kerr report has not been implemented. All the Government does is open up more consultations. Nothing actually happens, and that is the problem. The Government needs to take action. I have met the Registrar of Credit Unions. The Registry of Credit Unions gives the perception of being helpful but it does nothing except place obstacles in the paths of the credit unions. The Taoiseach's Government can change that policy and engage with and direct the registrar to be a facilitator of the credit unions providing services, not a blockage in their path. The Government can take action but, unfortunately, is not doing so. It can take action to strengthen the post office network and the credit unions and allow them to facilitate and help people and business in rural areas but it is too slow in dragging out the roll-out of these plans.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I thought the Deputy might take the opportunity to say that people with the challenge of cystic fibrosis in rural Ireland are very encouraged today by the decision made by the Minister, the Department of Health and the HSE in respect of Orkambi and Kalydeco.

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That is for another day-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

They live in rural Ireland as well.

The Deputy mentioned Cockhill Bridge in Inishowen, which is now in receipt of several million euro as a consequence of interest in rural Ireland. The specific actions and the programme for Government commitments regarding post offices include encouraging social welfare payments at post offices, and the Minister has confirmed that tender. The point is-----

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Why did the Government take them away?

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----how many of all the social welfare recipients in Donegal want their payments paid into banks as distinct from post offices? If we are serious-----

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----about our post offices, people must use them.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I thank the Taoiseach. His time has expired.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

They have that right and that choice. We support the roll-out of the pilot scheme presented at Cabinet by the Minister of State, Deputy Ring, and adopted by Government for four hub post offices to be determined as a pilot scheme.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Taoiseach will have to avail of another opportunity.

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Enda Kenny The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We support also the introduction of the roll-out by An Post of the e-payment accounts system, which will help businesses in post offices. We will also advance the model of community banking that has been so successful in other countries.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

That concludes Leaders' Questions.

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