Yesterday, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform formally invited public sector unions to commence talks on a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement. Having gone through two rounds of public sector pay talks, I reiterate my view that this is very late in the day. Of course, I wish the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, well in his negotiations. A fair deal that recognises the sacrifices made by public servants over recent years would be very welcome.

In the course of the forthcoming talks, the public services committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, will head the trade union side. I welcome the fact the Garda and the Defence Forces associations have also been invited to attend. Today I focus on the broader issue of trade union recognition for both of these groups. The Taoiseach previously committed to introducing legislative change to give the Garda associations the right of access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court. Unfortunately, although the commitment was given last November, we still have not even seen the heads of the Bill that would bring this about. To date, the Taoiseach has explicitly ruled out making any similar commitment on the Defence Forces, although he could make that as Minister for Defence.

Since the formation of this Government a year ago, the Taoiseach is one of the Ministers who has failed to enact any legislation relating to his brief. He may not have time to see through a Bill now, given the changing political circumstances, but even signalling his support for such a change would be really important. There are approximately 13,000 members of An Garda Síochána and 10,000 active personnel in our Defence Forces. These people carry out some of the most dangerous public sector roles in this country but they have no entitlement to access even the basic industrial relations machinery of the State. We all know issues must be carefully dealt with and agreements must be made relating to the right to strike or take industrial action that would put public safety at risk. These matters are well versed and rehearsed elsewhere. Allowing gardaí and those in the Defence Forces to affiliate to ICTU would be a welcome step, as would giving them full access to the Workplace Relations Commission. Making them full partners rather than merely attendees at public sector pay talks would be even more important.

At a time when morale within An Garda Síochána is terribly damaged, this would be a good time for the Taoiseach to act. Will he bring forward legislation recognising the trade union representatives of the Garda and Defence Forces?

It is important to say to Deputy Howlin, who made several public pay agreements, that what is at stake here is an extension of the Lansdowne Road agreement because there were particular benefits gained on both sides in that agreement, and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform will engage on an extension of that with his officials and the trade unions starting next Monday.

The resolution of the dispute last year in respect of the Garda included a commitment to the introduction of legislative change to give the Garda associations the right of access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court. A commitment was given that the legislation would be put in place before the end of this year and that commitment stands and will be followed through.

On 20 December last the Government approved the preparation of the heads of a Bill to provide the associations with access to the WRC and to the Labour Court. In addition to the technical legislative change required to provide access, the Government decision noted that some very significant issues will fall to be considered, including the status of the Garda associations established under An Garda Síochána Acts and the related question of the constraints upon members of taking industrial action. Do we want a situation where members of the Garda Síochána go on strike? Providing access to the WRC and the Labour Court does not of itself imply the removal of either the prohibition on members of the Garda Síochána joining trade unions or the constraints on industrial action. To assist in the consideration of these and some ancillary issues a working group chaired by Mr. John Murphy, the recently retired Secretary General of the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, has been established. The working group is considering some of the technical and practical issues that will arise and it is drawing on the experience and expertise of the relevant Departments and bodies of the group. The working group has identified several key issues that will require consideration. These include whether the associations should become full trade unions, the question of constraints on industrial action, the range of matters on which access is to be provided to the WRC and the Labour Court, what internal processes are to be put in place and be exhausted prior to issues being brought to the WRC - and that is part now of the structural work the commission announced yesterday and which it will also consider in terms of the workings of An Garda Síochána - how industrial relations should operate within the Garda Síochána and when access to the WRC and the Labour Court has been provided. The Garda associations have met with the working group so that their views are heard at an early stage in the process. The implementation of the Labour Court recommendations is ongoing and substantial progress is being made in addressing those.

Day to day management of the Defence Forces is the responsibility under statutory instrument of the Minister of State at my Department, Deputy Kehoe. He is considering a range of issues in respect of the Defence Forces, their personnel, their families and facilities.

I welcome the Taoiseach's reiteration of the fact that legislation on foot of the agreement of last year will come before this House, although I detect a significant rowing back on the commitments. Will the working group have any interaction with the Members of this House, so that it can democratically have an input into deciding on the appropriate legislative base to be brought forward?

I hear no commitment in respect of the Defence Forces. Is it the Taoiseach's view, as previously announced, that he would not countenance the recognition of the Defence Forces associations in the way that he has agreed to recognise the associations of An Garda Síochána? Is it his view that the Defence Forces associations should have access to the WRC and the Labour Court?

The working group comprises representatives of the Departments of Justice and Equality, of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, the Taoiseach-----

I asked about this House.

-----the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, the Garda management and the WRC. The working group is to report on these substantive issues by 31 May this year. I assume that report will be brought here for discussion.

Will this House have no input in advance?

No because the working group has its terms of reference.

The report will be brought to the House for discussion and the Deputy will have plenty of opportunities to make his case at that point. The Government will have to consider it, as is the case with any other report.

In respect of the Defence Forces, as the Deputy knows they are the backup to the civil power. As I said, there are substantial issues that must be addressed in respect of the legislation being prepared arising from a decision to give the Garda access to the WRC and Labour Court. The Minister of State at the Department of Defence is engaging with the Defence Forces representative.

Given the constraints upon us, I want us to continue to provide the Defence Forces and their personnel with the very best facilities in order that they can do their job. I am always open to discussion, but I am not giving any commitment. It is important that we recognise the value of the contribution given by our Defence Forces, which have never let the State down.