Fiscal space and capital investment
Deputy Brendan Howlin argued that the State has too little capital funding and should use additional resources, including the rainy-day fund and AIB proceeds, for investment. The Taoiseach said spending is constrained by fiscal rules but defended current housing and infrastructure spending and said the Government would follow through on the AIB decision.
All citizens of the State stand before the courts innocent until proved guilty and we depend on the courts to uphold this vital constitutional principle. However, we also depend on our investigating and prosecuting authorities to ensure that proper, thorough, accurate and convincing investigations of allegations of crime take place, particularly crimes that have rocked the nation. The manifest incompetence of the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement in the case brought against Mr. Seán FitzPatrick has not only caused a public outcry but it beggars belief. As to the notion that it is a matter of resources, coaching of witnesses and tampering with evidence are not matters of resources. The same issues arise when we talk about the Garda Síochána. There are fundamental ways in which proper conduct of business takes place.
This case brings to light that we need to tackle these matters. Some suggestions have been put forward. We need to ensure these fundamental questions result in fundamental answers being brought and discussed by the House. We will participate in this discussion. However, we must also acknowledge that much of the root cause of public anger relates to the cost to the people of bailing out the banks. The desire of the public to see convictions of those who gambled with the economic security of our State is absolutely understandable. Criminal convictions are not, however, the only way to tackle public anger over the bailout of the banks. As the banks return to stability and profitability, we should begin to use the funding they generate to repair the social damage done in the State. The investment made to bail out the banks came from the National Pensions Reserve Fund and people are entitled to see a result from that investment.
Last week, the House voted in favour of a Labour Party proposal to delay the sale of the State's shares in Allied Irish Banks until such time as we can invest the proceeds in vitally needed infrastructure. Disturbingly, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, has made known his intention to disregard this vote. If the Government disagrees with the vote of the House, it can try to rescind it, but that is not, I understand, the course to be taken. The Minister referred to a commitment in the programme for Government which has no more standing than a resolution of the House. Even if that were not the case, the programme for Government simply commits the State to use the banking shareholdings in the best interests of the people. Few would argue with the proposition that it is infinitely more in the interests of the Irish people to invest these moneys in vitally needed schools, hospitals and roads than in taking 1% off our national debt.
Before the Taoiseach vacates his office in the coming weeks, will he ensure the vote of the Dáil is respected and the policy adopted by the House last week is vindicated by his Government? Any other action would undermine the legitimacy of and public confidence in this people's assembly. Will he accept that proceeding with an initial public offering, IPO, in the face of the opposition of Dáil Éireann is an action that undermines the legitimacy of the House? Will he reconsider this bad proposal and work with my party and all other parties in the House to ensure the proceeds of this investment can benefit the people and that they get something back from the bailout of the banks?
Comment on this
The Deputy mentioned that the investigative procedure should be thorough, accurate and convincing and everybody supports that.
Comment on this
It was none of those in this case.
Comment on this
Clearly, the position that applied with the investigation carried out by the ODCE in the FitzPatrick case was none of those.
The judge himself made the point, which is a damning indictment of the procedure that was followed here, that the ODCE had completely lost sight of the nature and the extent of the evidence in respect of guilt and innocence. Everybody before the Irish courts is innocent until proven guilty. Now, the longest running trial in the history of the State has collapsed, the central individual is now free and acquitted and the taxpayer must take up the tab.
All of these issues - a lack of procedural capacity, lack of investigative capacity and lack of forensic analysis competence - were all evident in the structure of the ODCE prior to the current director being appointed in August 2012 where serious changes have taken place. The Minister will outline that to the Dáil and take questions on it. Director Drennan will be happy to go before the Oireachtas committee and have a serious discussion about it. The Government will reflect on this next week. The Minister will produce and publish the report when it is made available to her by the director.
The Minister, Deputy Noonan, and the Government have already commented on the IPO in respect of a portion of AIB being sold on and being applied to the reduction of debt. He has already made the point that it is a paper transfer in terms of whatever the value of the 25% being offered amounts to. The Government is not under any pressure to deal with this because the question of infrastructure is one it is now considering in terms of the capital review. All of the extent of the capital programme at the moment is up to €42 billion between State agencies, PPPs and the Exchequer. Yesterday, I pointed out the scale of what is available that is as yet unallocated, which is now the subject of a review here.
It is also important, as Deputy Howlin is well aware, that we do not want a situation where we apply so much money to infrastructure that all of the inflation costs then result and developers continue to make the rewards from all of that. It is much more important that the infrastructural needs are dealt with, and we are able to deal with these. Yesterday, both the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform were in Europe talking to the European Investment Bank about a number of major infrastructural projects, which can be accommodated through lending from the EIB at low interest rates long term. Issues have already been mentioned, like the development of the metro, like the development of the major motorway from Cork to Limerick and others where potentially there is a stream of income that can come from those to pay off those loans.
I respect the fact that the House made a decision last week in respect of a matter in regard to AIB, but Deputy Howlin will also respect the right and the responsibility of Government to make its decisions, and this decision has been publicly announced by Government for quite a long time and will stand in the context of what Government is doing.
Comment on this
The decision is, frankly, wrong. The Taoiseach referred to having too much money but the capital review involves €2.6 billion, which is paltry in investment terms. There is no such thing as "too much money". The additional €3 billion that we would get from the sale of AIB would increase that to €5.6 billion, which in itself is not enough. That is why we have also argued for the rainy-day sum to be deployed for this purpose.
The potential new Taoiseach, the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, has said that he will abandon the target set by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, of reducing our debt from 60% to 45%. He will have it at 55%. I welcome that, but we need to invest in our vital infrastructure now. The EIB being able to give us money that we can deploy through PPPs for profit is not the issue. Rather, it is the fiscal space that restricts how we spend it. The Taoiseach knows that we had money for social housing from the sale of the Bord Gáis Éireann facilities. That was €400 million that we could not spend because of the restrictions on the fiscal space. This is not about the availability of money. It is about readjusting the fiscal space. I spent yesterday talking to the Germans, who are now well disposed towards accepting that adjustment.
Will the Taoiseach put this on hold? Will he put the sale of AIB on hold until we get this agreement?
Comment on this
I am glad the Deputy is using his office as leader of his party to talk to others internationally. That is part of an important negotiation in which Ireland has always been involved in order that others fully understand our position. It is applied in the case of Brexit and the main priorities for our country. I hope the Germans have listened carefully to what the Deputy had to say. We voted for the fiscal stability treaty.
Comment on this
They have already given adjustment to Greece.
Comment on this
We voted for the rules here in a referendum, the only country to do so in the middle of a recession, and we voted 60:40 for that. The Deputy is right that it is not about the question of money being available; it is about the extent of how much we can spend. That is a very valid point, and I take that point. In the context of setting out what it is we can do in terms of infrastructure development, we need to consider that.
Comment on this
There is very little that can be done with €2.6 billion.
Comment on this
For example, the Government put €5 billion on the table in respect of social housing and we are struggling to get local authorities to measure up to the requirements. We gave them the money to buy houses, to reconstruct houses, to build houses and to have private enterprise come onto public lands to build social housing. It is a real challenge.
Comment on this
It is privatisation.
Comment on this
Many of the developments, such as the Gort-Tuam project and the Rosslare bypass, are under way. These are major developments. The point the Deputy makes about the extent of fiscal space and the capacity to spend money is an issue we are considering and will continue to consider. The question about AIB is a decision we have already made as a Government and we will follow through on it. The question of flexibility is a matter the Minister, Deputy Noonan, is dealing with all of the time.