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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Eighth Amendment referendum timing

Summary

Deputy Coppinger welcomed the planned referendum and asked about the wording and timing, arguing May would be preferable for turnout. The Taoiseach said he would decide after seeing the question and explained that May is the earliest feasible date once legislation, a referendum commission and a campaign are in place.

I hope I am not treated to the same patronising and condescending response that the Taoiseach just gave to the previous female Deputy.

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Tens of thousands of people will take to the streets of the capital this Saturday in what may well be the largest march for choice we have seen in this country. It begins at 2 p.m. at Parnell Square. Yesterday, the Taoiseach announced that a referendum on the eighth amendment will be held in May or June 2018. After all the campaigning and marching, and after years of being told there was no appetite for it, at last we have got this important and basic first step from the current Government. However, the question most vital to the thousands marching for this social change is what kind of referendum it will be. Will it finally deal with the reality of the situation in this country and will it respect the type of recommendations that the Citizens' Assembly put forward? Or, left in the hands of establishment politicians, will it be another cowardly fudge whereby most pregnant women seeking abortions will continue to be obliged to travel?

Based on comments the Taoiseach reportedly made overnight, we need to warn all those marching that the next three months are critical. They need to be very vigilant for the type of referendum that we will get. The Taoiseach said that he is not even sure how he will vote and that he will not direct his party members. He has had more positions on abortion than he has had different coloured socks. Unlike the colour of his socks, however, this is not a PR issue. When he was Minister for Health and 12 people a day were leaving the country, he did not see a need for a referendum at all. At one point, he thought rape victims should not have the right to abortion and, at another, that women should have the right abortion in cases where there is a threat of long-term damage to their health. The Taoiseach has said his views are evolving. While people are allowed to have evolving views, I think we might expect a person who has served as a Minister, who is a doctor, who has been in politics for a long time and who is now Taoiseach to have a more developed view on such a key issue.

Most recently, the Taoiseach and other Ministers speculated that they are not sure the public would vote for the Citizens' Assembly proposals.

Was that not why the Citizens' Assembly was set up in the first place - to test the public mood? If he cannot make up his mind, would he not be guided by the public forum that he apparently played a big role in setting up? Are the Taoiseach and his party on the committee going to respect those recommendations or are they going to try to quietly bury them? I am not as worried as he might be about the population supporting a referendum that would pave the way for abortion rights up to 12 weeks at the request of the pregnant person. The big hurdle to allowing what is needed is not the public; the big hurdle is here, this Dáil.

The recommendation the Citizens' Assembly put forward will cater for 92% of abortions that take place in the UK.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

A question please, Deputy.

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Is it not time we grasped the nettle and faced reality?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The decision made by Government during the week was to indicate that we are now making plans for a referendum on the eighth amendment in May or June of next year. I will decide, as I hope everyone in this House will, how I will vote when I actually see the question. I am not the kind of person who will give a "Yes" or "No" answer to a question I have not yet seen. Perhaps Deputy Coppinger has committed to vote "Yes" to a referendum the wording of which she has not yet seen but I would be disappointed if she has done so because I respect her intellect and I think she has probably not done so. We will all need to see the question before we decide whether we are going to vote "Yes" or "No" to it.

An all-party committee has been established and has held its first meetings. I think it will hold another meeting this week, maybe tomorrow, and I understand Deputy Coppinger is on the committee. I would like the committee to develop a consensus, to the extent that it is possible, around a wording that we can put to the people and the best way the Deputy can play a part in advancing the process is to play a constructive role on that committee, to be respectful to other views that she does not hold and not to shout at people but persuade the other people on the committee to put a question on which she would like the people to vote.

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Does the Taoiseach agree that the timing of this will be very important? He said May or June but for young people, who will be most affected by the outcome of the referendum, May would be the optimal time as it was in the marriage equality referendum, rather than a time when students are on the move.

We await what comes out of the Dáil committee, of which I am a member. I have heard some people on the committee say it is not their job to deal with this or that but to find something that will be passed, to rustle up something which we think will get passed. The Citizens' Assembly handed the ball over to the Dáil. Is the Dáil committee going to take up the ball and run with it or kick it to touch? Are we going to have another committee to look into this committee? The way things are going, that could emerge. For the people campaigning and yearning for social change, it is very important they can let the members of this committee know that they must get with where public opinion is at and to catch up with it.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy's time is up.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

No, she is over time and I have been too lenient.

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They must be able to focus on the committee as a critical way to get the change we need.

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The Deputy should not patronise the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

A timeline is required for any referendum. One needs legislation and that legislation needs to go through the Oireachtas - Dáil and Seanad. One also needs to establish a referendum commission and give it some time to do its work, as well as a period for a campaign. In that context, May is actually the earliest that this could possibly be done. I accept the view that it would be better to have it in May than June because turnout would be higher for a number of reasons, not least the fact that many students travel abroad over the summer period. Having said that, we have had referendums in June and July, and we had an election in August a long time ago so it is not impossible to have it in the summer period. However, we would all prefer May to June.

Key to achieving the deadline will be the all-party committee, of which Deputy Coppinger is a member, coming to a conclusion, finishing its deliberations before Christmas and meeting the 20 December deadline which has been set for them.

Key to that is the members of that committee working very hard, giving it their full attention and trying to approach this issue in a way that is respectful to all views, even those one does not agree with, that is measured and is not personalised. The Deputy has a particular responsibility in that regard.

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