Post office network closures
Michael Healy-Rae presses the Taoiseach on protecting the rural post office network and implementing the 2016 Dáil motion. The Taoiseach says the Government wants to maintain the network, notes closures have slowed sharply, and argues post offices must adapt with new services to remain sustainable.
The Rural Independent Group would also like to register its deepest sympathies for the families who lost loved ones in yesterday's storm. I also compliment the Government, local authorities and, in the county I represent, Ms Moira Murrell, who is CEO of Kerry County Council, and all the great outdoor staff for the great work that they did, not just in our county but throughout the country. Those people worked so hard to ensure that everything was dealt with in the proper way.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach about the specific commitment in A Programme for a Partnership Government to protect our post office network. I raised this matter many times here.
I wish to declare that I myself am a postmaster so I know the workings of exactly what is happening.
We, the Independent group, passed a motion in November of 2016. I was grateful to every political group and individual here in this House who supported that motion at that time but, unfortunately, nothing has happened since. A motion was passed here. It gave a clear framework as to how we can protect our post offices. It is not an exaggeration to state that 700 post offices face insolvency in the next two years. When every postmaster who has been revised - a revision takes place every two or three years - gets back his or her figures, the postmaster is losing a lot of money, to such an extent that it questions the post office's viability completely. Does the Taoiseach understand that in 2012 the social welfare contract was worth €60 million to the post offices? Today, it is worth just over €50 million. Why did that happen? First, it is Government policy. The Department was actively encouraging recipients to leave their post offices and use the commercial banks. The post office customers were being driven to commercial banks. I give the Taoiseach credit that when he was Minister at that time and I raised it with him he acted and ensured that letters being sent out to recipients encouraging them to go to the banks also pointed out that they could use the post offices. However, we must do more. When I saw "we", I mean every one of us - every political party and every individual here. All we need do is recognise that community banking is what saved the post office network in other parts of the world. It happened in New Zealand. It did not happen in England and Scotland. That is why they lost 10,000 post offices.
Anything we lose, as the Taoiseach well knows, we can never get back. If a post office closes in a community it is like taking the heart and soul out of that community. We have to recognise that the network is worth saving. It can be saved but we need the Taoiseach and the Government to provide policies and direction that will direct more business and more activity to the post offices.
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I reiterate that the Government is commitment to maintaining as much of the post office network as we can into the future. I read an interesting analysis not too long ago of politics in France. In France, those who are most likely to vote for the Front National, for extreme right or even extremely left parties, are those who live furthest away from the post office, a Garda station or a train station.
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He must give it to a research group.
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For many people the closure of post offices across rural Ireland and the closure even of Garda stations across rural Ireland is the equivalent to the State retreating and the State and public sector abandoning them. I am aware of the sensitivities in communities that when a post office is closed they feel that the State has pulled away from them and no longer cares about them. That is one of the reasons we are determined to-----
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Deputy Michael Healy-Rae is a centrist so.
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-----maintain and secure the post office network into the future.
I should point out that the rate at which post offices are closing has slowed considerably. During the period of 2000 to 2010, when Fianna Fáil was in government, 721 post offices closed.
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There are not too many left to close now.
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Since the change of Government, in 2011, only 41 have closed. As Deputy Michael Healy-Rae will be aware, under Fianna Fáil post offices were closing 20 times faster than they are closing at present.
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How many of them offered to close?
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With regard to the social welfare contract, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae did not mention one of the reasons the amount of money coming in from the social welfare contract to post offices has fallen so much is because unemployment has fallen so much. It has gone from 15% to 6%, and that will keep going downwards. There will be fewer people going into the post office to collect social welfare.
On pensioners, as the Deputy stated, I reversed the policy of encouraging recipients to use electronic transfer, but we do give pensioners the right to choose whether they want to go electronic or go to the post office. The reality is almost all of the modern-day pensioners turning 66 today want to get paid into their bank accounts-----
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Those are the ones who used to get up early in the morning.
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-----because that is the way they have been paid throughout their working lives. The number of pensioners going to the post office to collect their pension is only going to continue to fall as well. There will be fewer people going to the post office to collect pensions and social welfare. There are also fewer people using mail.
If post offices are to survive, they will need to change their business. This is very much the kind of solution the Minister is examining. Things such as community banking services are in the mix, as are things like digital assist. Particularly as Government services go online only, the aim is to use the post office as the portal for those who do not want to use computers or who, for some reason, are unable to do so. They will be able to go to the post office to access the services provided online. The revised business plan is still being worked on.
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply, but going back to criticising Fianna Fáil is not a very helpful way to deal with the issue. What I am asking him to do is to study the motion brought before the House in November 2016 and implement it. I have 100% confidence in the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Denis Naughten. His heart is in the right place and I know that he would want to keep every post office open if it was humanly possible to do so. Again, this will require direction and leadership from the Taoiseach, but boasting about how few post offices have closed since Fine Gael came to power is not very helpful. We must ensure more custom is generated for post offices. The Taoiseach spoke about the number of people claiming unemployment benefit, but there are many other services which postmasters are equipped to provide in post offices if only the Government would agree to their doing so. I am pleading with the Taoiseach not to let the opportunity pass. He has a chance to really prove the point that the Government is committed to rural Ireland. He has an opportunity to show that they are not just words, that there is going to be substance behind the talk.
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They are not just words. I spoke about the record in the past because it demonstrates that we are serious. In 2002, 102 post offices throughout the country were closed. In 2003, 193 post offices were closed, but so far this year, under Fine Gael, with the Independent Alliance and Independent Members, only one post office has been closed.
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The Deputy can see already that there has been a considerable slow down in the number of post offices that are being closed. It is not a coincidence that things have changed so much under this compared to previous Governments. I am committed to this, too, and it is something on which I will engage with the Minister in more detail in the weeks ahead to try to come up with a plan that will bring new business and modern services to post offices in order that they will be able to stay open. The only way to make them sustainable is to introduce new and modern services to replace those that are inevitably going to continue to decline.