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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Tracker mortgage scandal

Summary

Deputies Martin and Coveney spar over the tracker mortgage scandal, bank redress, the Central Bank’s powers, and whether Government will increase the bank levy or act more forcefully. Several interruptions confirm the issue is not from the Opposition, and the Minister says a Government statement and further bank responses are expected.

The tracker mortgage scandal represents a damning indictment of the behaviour of our banks towards both our people and their customers. It also reveals, it would appear, a tardiness and certain reluctance on the part of the Central Bank to deal early and resolutely with the issue, particularly the systematic nature of the abuse that occurred and the part of the Government in allowing this scandal to drag on for far too long.

I am sure the Minister would agree that the banks essentially stole people's money. They caused enormous damage to people's lives and a great deal of distress to families. Mr. Thomas Ryan's heart-rending testimony to the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach last week revealed that damage in shocking terms - a stroke at the age of 47 and a nervous breakdown within the family. In many respects, it constitutes a failure of regulation and Government oversight that a man had to come before an Oireachtas committee with others to reveal all of that. What does it say about the system of regulation? What does it say about the ethos and culture of our banks that they would bring people to that level of shocking distress, resulting in individuals having to come before Dáil Éireann to articulate what happened to them? We know that 102 customers have lost their homes as a result of this scandal.

The Central Bank would have had some indication of this as long ago as 2009 or 2010 - although it was not systematic at that stage - and it took it until 2015, when an investigation took place, for it to begin to be satisfied that this was systematic. It defies all credibility that 11 institutions would have acted independently. No credible explanation has been given as to how this happened in all of the banks at the same time. That matter needs to be pursued. The banks have been pathetically slow in the context of resolving these issues.

It is interesting that some weeks ago representatives from Ulster Bank gave testimony to the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach that only 40 of its 3,500 mortgage holders had got their money back. KBC indicated that it had not contacted all of its customers. Yet there were no big announcements at that stage or ministerial meetings being profiled. It took last week's meeting of the committee to get some belated action from the Government. I put it to the Minister that there is a pattern here with, for example, the Government having been negative and adversarial towards my party's Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016, which Deputy Michael McGrath put forward-----

Comment on this

I thank the Deputy.

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-----and which was designed to deal with the issue of mortgage holders being ripped off as a result of the imposition of excessive rates.

The Government essentially seems to be standing by and putting the interests of the banks ahead of those of the public. Why did the Government not intervene earlier and more decisively on this issue? Is the Government going to increase the bank levy as was indicated last week? Has the Government told the banks to cease any repossession of mortgages affected by this scandal? Will the Government now proactively support our Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill?

Comment on this
Simon Coveney Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade Fine Gael

The Government takes this issue very seriously. I am glad to understand that the two largest parties in this House have agreed upon a motion for tomorrow night. There is a very clear message coming from the Oireachtas in respect of how unacceptable the behaviour of banks has been in the context of the tracker mortgage scandal, which we are trying to bring to a conclusion. We had a Government meeting last night, most of which was taken up by a discussion on this issue.

The Minister, Deputy Donohoe, has made it crystal clear that he sees this as a totally unacceptable breach of the kind of standards that banks should be applying. This is unfortunately a recognition that for some in Irish banks, there is still a cultural problem. It needs to change. We have seen both the Central Bank and the Minister for Finance make very clear and blunt statements on the need for banks themselves to respond in a more comprehensive way than has been the case to date. Clearly, different banks are behaving differently in terms of the pace of co-operation with the Central Bank. That is also something that needs to come to an end this week. The Minister, Deputy Donohoe, met representatives of three banks yesterday, namely, Bank of Ireland, KBC and Permanent TSB. Today he will meet representatives of AIB and Ulster Bank. The Minister has given a very consistent message to all five that the Government regards their behaviour in this scandal as totally unacceptable. Banks should be there to serve an economy and a society as opposed to the other way around. There are families today who have lost homes and others who have lost properties because of the dishonest behaviour of banks in the context of tracker mortgages and their attempts to get people off them for some time now.

I want to give a very clear message to the House that the Minister, supported by the Government, is going to see this through. He will make a lengthy statement to the House tomorrow in the context of his meetings this week. We also expect comprehensive statements from all five banks addressing how they intend to bring this saga and scandal to an end and to ensure that people get their money back, as well as get the appropriate redress they are due. The damage that has been caused is, unfortunately, a further example of banks not acting in the interests of the public but acting in their own interests.

Comment on this

The Minister did not answer the questions that I asked. The first one was whether the Government is going to increase the bank levy. I am not saying that is the optimal outcome but it was touted by the Government last week. Those were the screaming headlines last week indicating a tough response. Given that there was a lengthy discussion on it last evening at the Cabinet meeting, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, might clarify whether it is the Government's intention to increase the bank levy or add additional levies. What powers does the Central Bank have at the moment that it could use to penalise the banks more? Has the Government made it clear to the banks that all repossessions of properties affected by this scandal should cease? Has the Government a clear position on that?

Will the Government proactively support our Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill? It would give additional powers to the Central Bank to be able to deal with the rip-off of up to 300,000 people in terms of their interest rates. We have been pursuing this now for quite some time yet there has been a negative, foot-dragging, almost adversarial approach from the Government. I put it to the Minister that this follows a pattern of standing back from the banks, standing by and allowing them do what they are doing, which is screwing customers on a continuous basis.

There needs to be a change in the official approach to the banking system across the board.

Comment on this

It is the role of the Central Bank, not the Government, to regulate the banking system. Should another a scandal occur, the type of which we are talking about today, the Government, if it needs to, will act. On the levy issue, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, has made it clear that he has not been prescriptive in terms of what the Government will do until such time as he gets clarification from the banks this week on what they intend to do, but he has also made it clear that if the Government is not satisfied with the response this week from the banks there will be a further Cabinet meeting dealing with the detail of the options that are available to Government in that regard.

In regard to the Central Bank, it already has extensive and significant powers to fine and a series of other powers. The suggestion that the consumer protection function should be taken from the Central Bank is misplaced.

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The suggestion was made by a Minister of the Government.

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It did not come from us.

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I am not suggesting that it did. What I am saying is that I do not believe any consumer protection regulator would have the power the Central Bank has. That function needs to remain with the Central Bank. We will have a comprehensive statement from the Government tomorrow. We expect a comprehensive statement from the banks also. If we do not get that, the Government will look at the options that are available to it.

On the legislation issue, I will leave it to the Ministers concerned to discuss the detail in that regard. If the Central Bank indicates that it needs more power, it will get it from Government.

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