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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Sexual harassment and legal protections

Summary

Deputy Ruth Coppinger raised the #MeToo movement, workplace harassment, the Gate Theatre and the need for updated data, support for women seeking barring orders, and stronger government action. The Taoiseach condemned sexual harassment, stressed due process for allegations, and pointed to the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017 and other measures.

Could we have order, please?

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The hashtag #MeToo is trending as women worldwide share their experiences of sexual harassment. Hollywood has been rocked with accounts of rich and powerful men abusing their power over women and vulnerable young men. In Ireland, women in the arts are speaking out about persistent sexual harassment they have experienced. The Gate Theatre, which has been a recipient of public funds over many years, seemingly did nothing to protect the women who actually worked for it and in it. What is becoming clear from all these examples is that sexual harassment is a universal experience. Every single woman in this country and non-binary people know the stomach-churning feeling brought about by unwanted sexual advances and remarks. Such harassment has an enormous impact on the self-confidence, health and self-esteem of women. In that context, why did the Taoiseach trivialise this issue when he was asked about it and use it as an opportunity to score a point against political opponents? When asked if such a culture existed in Leinster House, where hundreds of women work in countless capacities, the Taoiseach chose instead to talk about his experience of being interrupted by men and women from the Opposition. In doing so, he belittled a serious issue and made it about himself. He managed to turn #MeToo into #MéFéin.

Yesterday, the Taoiseach made a comment saying inappropriate, boorish and obnoxious behaviour does not necessarily constitute bullying or sexual assault, but so-called low-level behaviour creates a culture of tolerance and acceptance of violence against women generally. It should be called out. Why else would sexual harassment, rape and domestic violence be all so under-reported? Only 13 cases of sexual harassment were taken through the Workplace Relations Commission in 2016, yet in an EU survey of Irish women, it is indicated that 48% have been sexually harassed since the age of 15 while 39% have experienced severe forms.

Are we to rely completely on the Internet for women to come out and disclose this? Alternatively, is this State going to take measures to gauge the real extent of sexual abuse and harassment? Does the Taoiseach take this seriously enough to commission a report now on sexual abuse and violence in Ireland, SAVI? Such a report has not been produced in this country for 15 years. Does it not say something about the priorities of this State that no such report has been produced because it would cost €1 million, although the Taoiseach's new department of propaganda costs the taxpayer €5 million? Is it not shocking that Rape Crisis Network Ireland cannot produce any figures for 2016 because it had its funding cut by 70% in 2015? Does the Taoiseach take this issue seriously enough to carry out a SAVI study now? Will he properly fund agencies and refuges combating violence against women? Does he believe a nationwide campaign about consent is now necessary in schools, colleges and workplaces to send a message of zero tolerance of this type of harassment?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am afraid the Deputy is misinformed. I was asked two separate questions. One was on sexual harassment, and I gave a very clear answer to that. It was an unequivocal condemnation of sexual harassment and sexual assault of any sort in any place, not least workplaces. I was asked a separate question about macho behaviour in the House, to which I gave a separate answer. I will assume the Deputy is misinformed and not deliberately trying to misrepresent me or conflate two different answers to two very different questions.

It is very much my view that everyone is entitled to be treated with respect and dignity in the workplace. There can be no tolerance of sexual harassment, assault or bullying in any form in any workplace. It is very important that we recognise this. I certainly want to express my admiration for the men and women who have come out in recent times to tell their stories of sexual assault and violence against them. Perhaps that can change the culture in the future in order that people who engage in such behaviour against other individuals will think twice if they know they will be exposed for it.

With regard to the Gate Theatre specifically, it receives significant public funding, as do many private bodies and companies. The theatre is an independent body, however, and it has its own board and trustees. It is incumbent on it now to honour its obligations under employment equality legislation to establish an independent inquiry and take necessary actions based on that. The Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Heather Humphreys, met representatives of the Arts Council last night. It was an initial meeting to discuss general concerns over the mistreatment of women, bullying and sexual harassment in general across the arts sector. I do not believe for a second that the problem is confined to the arts sector. I am sure it is prevalent in all sectors.

With regard to the SAVI report, it is not a matter of money. Funding for sexual and domestic violence organisations amounted to €22.1 million this year, which is up €1.5 million on last year. That is just that part of the budget. Therefore, a survey that costs €1 million over three years could easily be accommodated within a budget that is well over €22 million. The question that has to be asked is a different one. Are the statistics we already have adequate? There are statistics - European statistics and Garda statistics. If the statistics are not adequate, is a SAVI study the best way to get adequate statistics? Is reporting a study, the methodology of which was determined 15 years ago, now the right thing to do 15 years later? I have asked the key Ministers, Deputies Flanagan, Zappone, Regina Doherty and Harris, to come together on this to examine two questions. Are the statistics we have adequate and, if not, what is the best form of study that should be done to establish the true level of sexual harassment and sexual violence in the State? Is it to be a repeat of a study whose methodology is 15 years old or should it be something else? As I said before in this House, I have an absolutely open mind on this. It is not a matter of money but a question of whether the study is necessary and, if so, the best way to do it.

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I do not believe anybody buys the idea that the Taoiseach was not convinced about producing another SAVI report with the same methodology. The point is that the figures are 15 years old, which is almost a generation. Clearly, there must be changes. It should be of interest to the State to monitor the trends.

The Taoiseach indicated that money would be provided in the budget for Free Legal Advice Centres, FLAC, in order that it could cut the fees for women who want to get barring orders. Those fees still exist.

There does not seem to be any real sign or example that the Government takes this whole question seriously. There has been an internal review and an internal email at The Gate. In the past we have seen how useless that is as a form of investigation. There should be an investigation into what took place there. The fact that lots of people in the arts seem to have known about this bully existing for years yet nothing was done says everything about the tolerance around this issue.

The disclosures on #MeToo and by other people disclosing their experiences are very important. It is part of a global movement against gender-based violence and for gender equality in general. That is to be welcomed. My question is whether the State is serious about getting to the heart of the figures. Women's Aid, for which the Taoiseach gave a figure, had its funding cut during the recession by 31%, including a 20% cut by Tusla in 2015. The Taoiseach should not try to cite a figure in comparison to one year, he should talk about what has happened to the services in recent years.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I will not discuss specific individual allegations in this House. It is very important that all allegations are taken seriously and fully investigated but it is also important that we remember that allegations are allegations and no matter what form of crime or violence is being alleged people do have a right to due process and to have their good name protected. I would encourage the Deputy not to hang anyone before he or she has had a fair trial-----

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----regardless of the issue. In terms of the Government's actions to date, I draw the Deputy's attention to the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017. It is legislation introduced by the Government that was enacted on 22 February this year. It enhances and updates laws to combat sexual exploitation and the sexual abuse of children, including new offences related to child sexual grooming and strengthened defences relating to child pornography. It also criminalises the purchase of sexual services, introduces new provisions regarding the giving of evidence by victims in sexual offence trials and introduces a new offence dealing with public indecency. Other provisions include maintaining the age of consent to sexual activity at 17 years for a new proximity of age defence as well as a statutory statement of the law with regard to consent to sexual acts. That is the legislative progress the Government has made this year alone.

As I mentioned, funding for domestic and sexual violence organisations in the round was increased by €1.5 million this year and in addition to that I have asked the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and the Minister for Health to consider the issue Deputy Coppinger raised on up-to-date statistics on sexual violence. That issue will be discussed at a meeting of the senior officials' group today.

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