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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Garda overtime budget

Summary

Deputy Micheál Martin raised a Garda instruction cancelling most overtime because the 2017 budget was exhausted. The Taoiseach said funding for December overtime would be available, but also stressed Garda management must control the budget; Martin pressed that the money was already owed and later Gerry Adams raised broader justice-system failures and the McCabe/Siobhán Phillips issues, which the Taoiseach said should first go through GSOC and due process.

People will have been concerned to learn that the assistant commissioner of the Dublin metropolitan region, Mr. Pat Leahy, has advised that no overtime is to be incurred other than in respect of Operation C-Port and Operation Hybrid. In his instruction, he declared in very stark language:

No other overtime is authorised and any operations intended on an overtime basis are hereby cancelled ... The Garda Budget for 2017 has been exhausted. All other operations, events, searches, arrest etc for the remainder of 2017, will be performed by the working units.

The Taoiseach might enlighten me on what the reference to "working units" means for policing capacity. Other Garda communications have referred to decommissioning burglary response units and reducing mobile patrols. The only people in the country who could possibly be pleased with this are criminals. Why incentivise them at this juncture?

According to the Garda Representative Association, it is simply not possible to police the State without overtime. The association has suggested that thefts and burglaries will increase over Christmas. It is worried that the cancellation of Garda overtime could have major implications for local feuds in Blanchardstown and Finglas, for security operations involving cash-in-transit escorts and retail takings and for public order and roads policing. Will we have enough gardaí to police the severe traffic congestion that is expected over the next six weeks and the drink-driving campaign? Why have drink-driving laws if we will not have gardaí to enforce them over the crucial Christmas period? We are getting reports that similar overtime bans are now being applied in Galway and Cork.

Can the Taoiseach explain how we have reached a point at which an assistant commissioner would issue a direction of this nature? I understand that the Select Committee on Justice and Equality will meet tomorrow to consider a Supplementary Estimate of €130 million.

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The meeting will take place tomorrow morning.

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If enough money is available, it should not be the case in any national system that a declaration of this nature, with so many implications, is made. Did the Garda inform the Department of Justice and Equality that it intended to make this announcement to all gardaí across the country? Surely proper planning would dictate that something like this should not occur at this time of the year. I have a key question. Is the assistant commissioner aware that a Supplementary Estimate is coming before a Dáil committee tomorrow? Has the assistant commissioner already factored in that figure when considering the operational budgets of the force? Has the Garda, even with the knowledge of what it is going to get tomorrow, decided that an overtime ban will be needed in any event? I would like an answer to that question.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy. I share the concerns about any ban on overtime in December. As the Deputy mentioned, December is a very busy period. Traffic is very heavy in the run-up to Christmas. There can be a spike in burglaries during this period because it is so dark and because many people tend to be out of their homes. Burglars also need money in the run-up to Christmas. There is often a spike in burglaries at this time.

I assure the House that there is funding for overtime in December. I can say that for a number of reasons. The Cabinet agreed yesterday morning that there will be a Supplementary Estimate for the Garda. That covers overtime. Tomorrow morning, the Select Committee on Justice and Equality will be asked to approve a Supplementary Estimate of €50.489 million under the pay subhead of the Department of Justice and Equality. That includes €42 million for overtime, which will bring the total Garda overtime budget for 2017 to €130 million. I think people will appreciate that €130 million is a very big budget for overtime.

This is happening at a time when the number of gardaí is increasing again. For example, approximately 200 trainee gardaí are scheduled to attest next month. This will increase Garda numbers to approximately 13,500 by the end of the year when projected retirements are taken into account. An additional 200 full-time gardaí will be available to police the State next month, which is December. In addition, the Supplementary Estimate will cover overtime.

It is important to say that almost all pay, including overtime, is paid a month in arrears. This is why I am also keen to understand yesterday's public announcement a bit better. December overtime would never have been paid from the 2017 budget. The Supplementary Estimate is for the 2017 period. While December overtime is worked in December, it is paid in January. This means that next month's overtime will come out of the 2018 budget. I would have hoped or assumed that Garda management would have been aware of that. Any overtime done in December comes out of the 2018 budget, which ,of course, is substantial.

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It is a "Dad's Army" job.

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The Taoiseach has said he shares the concerns about this matter and needs to understand it a bit better. He has said he would have assumed that Garda management knew about these arrangements. This instruction was issued by an assistant commissioner on the basis that "the Garda Budget for 2017 has been exhausted". I think we need a better explanation of how this has happened within our security and policing system.

There is an issue at the heart of the administration of security and justice in the country. Something like this should not happen if sufficient funds are available. This needs to be resolved and we need to get answers because people's fears can be heightened in situations like these. The original question I asked the Taoiseach was whether an Garda Síochána had already factored the Supplementary Estimate, which will be provided tomorrow, into its budget and yet still finds itself short. It says here that much of the additional Supplementary Estimate is required as a result of the Labour Court agreement. Overtime is involved, but the cost associated with the implementation of the Labour Court agreement in respect of Garda pay is also a contributory factor as are the off-setting of additional requirements, departmental underspends and so on. It is not yet clear to me that what will be provided in the Vote tomorrow will cover the entirety of what An Garda Síochána needs. Otherwise I presume the assistant commissioner would not have given the instruction he gave to all stations and ranks across the Dublin metropolitan region.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The important thing is to assure the public that the State will be policed throughout December. The number of gardaí is increasing. We will have 200 more gardaí next month. Since 2014 we have seen the number of gardaí continuously increase. We will also have a recruitment campaign for the Garda Reserve next year. We are seeing an increased number of gardaí. With more gardaí joining the force and more gardaí on the streets, one would expect that the need for overtime would fall. Nonetheless, overtime will always be necessary for policing operations, although with increasing numbers of gardaí one would expect the need for overtime to decrease. To answer the Deputy's question, the Supplementary Estimate which will be voted through tomorrow with the agreement of the House provides additional funds for Garda overtime but, as I mentioned earlier, Garda overtime for December is paid out of the 2018 budget anyway, so no Supplementary Estimate is required for that. The very substantial €100 million Garda budget for 2018 covers it.

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Is the money therefore owed already?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is also important that we ensure Garda management is responsible and held to account for the way budgets are managed. If one has a budget of €100 million for overtime, one has to spread it out over a period of 12 months. There is a responsibility to do that. It is very easy to run out of funds for overtime in November if 9% of the budget is spent every month. Some 99% will have been spent by the end of November and the funds will run out. If 8.3% is spent every month, it will last the full 12 months. Therefore, Garda management have a responsibility to manage the overtime budget in such a way that the money does not run out. However, as I have said, there is a Supplementary Estimate going through tomorrow which will cover all of the overtime costs to the end of November. Funding for December, which as the Deputy knows starts next week, comes out of the budget for 2018 anyway. The 2018 budget for Garda overtime is €100 million.

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The money is owed so.

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I welcome the Taoiseach's commitment that there will be funding for Garda overtime. I am however very disappointed at the way he has handled the recent revelations about the dysfunction at the heart of our justice system. His Government refused to take appropriate actions which would have avoided all of the recent difficulties, not least for Sergeant Maurice McCabe and his family. In many ways the Taoiseach repeated the mistakes which Deputy Enda Kenny made when he was Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach will recall the fatal shooting of Garda Tony Golden, the serious wounding of Siobhán Phillips and the death by suicide of Crevan Mackin in Omeath on 11 October 2015. Crevan Mackin was arrested for possession of weapons and explosives and admitted to such possession. He was released without being charged with theses offences, despite some detectives knowing that he had access to four other weapons. It is believed he used one of these weapons to murder Garda Tony Golden and seriously wound Ms Phillips, whom he had also brutally beaten, before killing himself. In October 2015 I gave a file on these matters to the then Taoiseach, Deputy Kenny, and the then Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. I wrote to Deputy Kenny four times. I spoke to him directly on a number of occasions. I wrote to Deputy Fitzgerald eight times. I also spoke to her. I gave information to the senior Garda officer investigating the case and I wrote to GSOC. When Deputy Varadkar took over as Taoiseach I sent the same file to him. Like Deputy Kenny, the Taoiseach gave me no substantive response until I raised the issue with him here. The Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, has yet to reply to me. When I asked him informally about this case he said there was something seriously wrong and he committed to meeting with me. He has yet to do so.

The answer I received from the previous Taoiseach, from Deputy Varadkar and from the Minister for Justice and Equality is that an investigation and review of these tragic events is ongoing. There are no other suspects. There are no other lines of inquiry. The real issue is that Crevan Mackin was arrested for the possession of weapons and explosives and admitted to that. He was released without being charged with these offences despite some detectives knowing he had access to four other weapons. He used one of these weapons to murder Garda Tony Golden and injure Siobhán Phillips. It is not enough to say that processes are ongoing. This is about accountability or in this case, once again, the lack of accountability. I ask the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice and Equality to speak to the acting Garda Commissioner as a matter of urgency. If the Taoiseach has read this file he will know the questions he should ask of the acting Garda Commissioner. I ask the Taoiseach to meet with the family of Siobhán Phillips and to establish a public inquiry as the family has requested.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Obviously the Deputy is free to criticise my handling of the events of recent days, as is anyone, but the basic approach I will always follow is that people should be given a fair hearing and that we should know all the facts before we rush to judgment. I appreciate fully that has never been the approach of Deputy Adams or his party. In the Sinn Féin view of the world people do not deserve a fair hearing, people are executed without trial and punished without getting a fair hearing. I will never operate on that basis. I will always ensure that allegations are taken seriously and are also properly investigated before we rush to judgment. I know that is the kind of approach which Maurice McCabe and his family would support and which should have always been followed in respect of the allegations which he made. It was certainly the approach which I followed when he came to me a number of years ago with allegations in respect of penalty points and with evidence to back them up. That is why on this occasion, before jumping to judgment, we should once again make sure that we know the facts and that allegations are taken seriously and are properly investigated.

As it stands with this case, there is an investigation under way. That investigation will not be carried out here in the Dáil, nor should it be. It should be carried out by the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC, which is the body set up and empowered by the Oireachtas to investigate complaints against An Garda Síochána. The GSOC investigation report is still awaited. We should allow that investigation to happen, get the report and then consider the outcome. That is the appropriate role for ourselves as politicians and for this House. I am advised by the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, that he would be happy to meet Deputy Adams today to discuss the matter further. It is very much my view, however, that we should allow GSOC to carry out its investigation. When we have a report, we can then consider it.

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I did not ask that the investigation be carried out in the Dáil. The Taoiseach knows that. I asked him to do his job and to hold these agencies to account. Has the Taoiseach read the file?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Which file?

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The file I sent him.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Yes.

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Yes. So he does not think it warrants-----

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I read all the letters the Deputy sends me. I make a point of it.

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I am not so sure about that but if he has read the file, what is he going to do about it? What I have asked him to do is very precise, very simple and very straightforward. I have asked him to speak to the acting Commissioner as a matter of urgency. Forget about me and forget about taking a pot-shot at Sinn Féin. This is a serious issue. No one from the Government that I know of has spoken to the acting Commissioner, or indeed the former Garda Commissioner, on this issue. I am also asking the Taoiseach to meet with the family of Siobhán Phillips and to establish a public inquiry as requested by the family. This is about accountability and it is about leadership. The Taoiseach has said that the Minister will meet with me. That is what he said to me the last time.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

There is a process under way. When people have complaints to make against An Garda Síochána, there is a body called the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC. That body is responsible and empowered to carry out these investigations. We should allow it to carry out its investigation, allow for due process and allow GSOC to make its report. When it has made its report, we can then consider the findings and decide whether further action should be taken. I have no intention whatsoever of superseding that report by permitting a public inquiry.

I also have no intention of interfering in the work of the commission.

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I did not ask the Taoiseach to do so.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is not for us to adjudicate on allegations, meet different sides and then, without evidence, make judgments. We must ensure allegations, whether by whistleblowers or others, will be taken seriously and investigated appropriately. We should not allow the Oireachtas to become a court.

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How can a Deputy make a case to the Taoiseach on behalf of a constituent?

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The Deputy will have to talk to the Taoiseach afterwards.

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