A nation and a society must hold certain values and qualities, of which one is to nurture and protect its artists, and particularly its musicians. The RTÉ symphony and concert orchestras have been an essential and acclaimed part of our national cultural life over many decades. Founded in 1948, they have become the biggest employers of musicians throughout the country. The orchestras are a key component of our musical ecosystem. Many of our graduates from Ireland's music schools, academies and colleges gain employment in them and others aspire to become members. Standards of excellence in performance are set by the orchestras for others to emulate. Many of their members engage in education, many teach in higher education and many perform across the country. Their reach is far and wide. In the words of Aodán Ó Dubhgaill, the orchestras have a singular place in the Irish musical heritage. They have nurtured through performance and education generations of world-class musicians.

RTÉ has announced a review of its two orchestras amid challenging financial circumstances - that is code for RTÉ being in deep financial trouble. The orchestras are already short of 30 musicians, there have been suggestions that they will be 40 musicians short next year. Some fear that there might be an amalgamation leading to the loss of the entire concert orchestra. Other managers are talking about one fifth of orchestral musicians being lost to the system. There is no sense of future planning or vision for these orchestras.

The Government cannot wash its hands of this and cannot stand idly by. The orchestras are a national treasure. They have developed a tradition of musical excellence that has been built up painstakingly over decades and are a key part of our national cultural life. I ask the Taoiseach to intervene to ensure that the allocation for orchestras be ring fenced and not fall victim to RTÉ's genuine financial difficulties. It cannot become a victim in the ongoing tug of war between RTÉ and the Government regarding the licence fee. The Government, through the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment should intervene and I ask the Taoiseach to ask them to do so and to do what is necessary. If that requires further Exchequer funds in addition to their revenue from the RTÉ licence fee allocation, then so be it, that should be done. The two orchestras could then plan with a degree of certainty and excitement for the future instead of being at the whim of various reviews every year. There was one such review in 2014.

Is it the Taoiseach's intention to intervene to guarantee that ring fenced funding for the two orchestras?

I share the Deputy's sentiments on the orchestras. I would not like to see either being lost, or the two being merged. I read a letter in the newspaper recently - I cannot remember who wrote it - which pointed out that Finland, which is a similar sized country to ours, has many orchestras while we have only two. In the past the Army had bands and orchestras, but it no longer does, and we now have only two orchestras. I would like to see both retained and for both to prosper.

I will ask the two Ministers who have some line responsibility for the matter to come together to examine the issue and see what can be done about it. The two Ministers are Deputy Josepha Madigan, as Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and the Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, who is currently in Paris, has responsibility for RTÉ through his Department. I will ask them to examine the issues to see if anything can be done to secure the future of the two orchestras. The Deputy has my commitment on that.

However, it is important that orchestras do not get caught up-----

Sorry?

It is important that orchestras do not get caught up or find themselves used as part of any attempt to campaign for an increase in the licence fee. RTÉ receives considerable revenues from the licence fee, from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection and it also receives commercial revenues. That gives it an income - I cannot give an exact figure but it must be some €200 or €300 million, it is certainly more than €100 million - and I wonder how much of that is dedicated to the orchestra. I would not like to see orchestras or other important cultural assets being caught up in any way in an exercise related to cost saving. I will ask the two Ministers to come together to examine the issues and see what can be done to secure the future of the two orchestras.

The orchestras are being caught up in the RTÉ financial challenges. The allocation to the orchestras from the licence fee revenue is around 7% or 7.5%. I do not want the Taoiseach's analysis, I only want a commitment to intervene on the matter to see if something can be done. Something can be done. Look at the Creative Ireland budget. We have asked several parliamentary questions and put in requests under freedom of information and of the €5 million allocated to Creative Ireland last year, almost a million was allocated to citizen engagement. What is that about?

It involved a full-page spread in the The Irish Times supplement magazine for 12 weeks and two supplements in the Irish Independent, with a weekly and ongoing double spread. In Saturday's edition of the Irish Independent, there was a regional print and media campaign, costing €900,000, and €400,000 was spent on web and digital content, €145,000 on a director, €50,000 on an event co-ordinator and €205,000 on two contract staff. Out of the €5 million, we have already accounted for €1.5 million on what seems to be a very determined effort to keep the media onside by doshing out lots of advertising. I have no problem with supporting the media but it should be done on a stand-alone basis, separate from Government and from its political arms. The orchestra could have done with that €1.5 million. Let us at least support that which has depth, solidity and tradition. The RTÉ orchestras are the jewel in the crown of our cultural life but they are losing positions and those positions are not being replaced, yet we get these fantastic press releases, gatherings and announcements on money being frittered away. That money could have gone to the orchestras or to consolidate what we have in our artistic infrastructure, while keeping it at arm's length from political patronage, which is the wrong way to fund arts and culture.

The Arts Council was set up as an independent arm, separate from politics, to fund the arts. I do not like what is happening and I am principally making a plea for the orchestras because they are going to continue to be the victim of what is going on with RTÉ as a result of the fact that the station is in deep financial trouble. We cannot wash our hands of that either, but it is another day's work. We should not pretend it is all RTÉ's problem - the Government has to intervene to save the orchestras.

The Deputy has my commitment. I will ask the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Madigan, and the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Denis Naughten, to examine the issues in order to identify what options are available and see if there is a way the Government can assist. It is always important to consider the opportunity cost of not doing things. I would not like to see the Arts Council or Creative Ireland budgets reduced to provide funding for the RTÉ orchestras.

What about Government advertisements? The Government could cut the number of those.

As part of their consideration, they would need to look at how RTÉ is spending its money and see if RTÉ could make savings in other areas. Could it restrict spending in other areas to preserve what the Deputy and I both agree are national assets?