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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Homelessness and Capuchin Day Centre

Summary

Micheál Martin criticises the Government's response to homelessness and the lack of a child welfare officer at the Capuchin Day Centre. The Taoiseach says he will follow up, defends Government efforts on housing and child poverty, and the exchange turns into a dispute over delivery and speaking time.

Yesterday I visited the Capuchin Day Centre to meet those at the coalface of providing services for homeless adults and children. Brother Kevin's organisation is an iconic illustration of the generosity of people and the wider community. To witness volunteers from all strata of society is heartening; what is not so heartening is the lack of a proper meaningful response from Government. The reality from the front line is there is a terrible disconnect between official pronouncements on housing and homelessness and the experiences of those who are without homes. When I visited the centre in April, I raised some issues with the Taoiseach's predecessor. I pointed out that in 2013 there were 4,747 children attending for lunch and by 2016 the number was 8,353. That is a 76% increase and a shocking indictment on society and Government. I was there with Deputy Barry Cowen yesterday and, depressingly, the figures are getting worse rather than better. The figures for children attending for meals at the centre between January and September 2017 are worse than the figures for the entirety of 2016. In 2017, 4,500 people attended the medical clinic in the centre. Prescription charges are paid for by the organisation. There are 700 people for dinner every day and another 300 for breakfast. Every week, 1,900 food parcels are given out; 3,000 people are expected in Christmas week; and 250 baby parcels are given out weekly, which is a new service. The centre raised €3.5 million from people; the Government gives it €450,000.

More crucially, when I raised it in the Dáil last April, I raised some very specific issues. The first was the appointment of a social worker to the centre. The second issue was the appointment of a child welfare officer to act as first responder particularly in the case of child protection issues. In terms of child protection issues, the workers at the centre are very worried about the vulnerability of children who attend. They were promised a HSE link officer or child welfare officer. The centre has not had a social worker since 2012. The prescription charge should be waived for medical services at the centre. The Minister, Deputy Zappone, visited last year and the Minister, Deputy Harris, visited last November. Commitments were given on all those fronts and none was delivered. Nothing has happened, which I find extraordinary and unacceptable. Will the Taoiseach intervene and ensure the appointment of a dedicated social worker to the centre? Will he intervene and ensure the appointment of a child welfare officer to protect vulnerable people? Will he acknowledge that the housing plan is not working? There is no difference on the ground despite all the statements we are getting. The reality on the ground is becoming depressingly worse from talking to those at the coalface.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As the Deputy has acknowledged, a number of Ministers have visited the centre in recent times. The Ministers, Deputies Harris, Coveney and Zappone, have attended so I do not know why a social worker or child welfare officer has not been appointed but I will follow it up. I was not aware of the issue until this morning. I will check up on it.

In terms of issues more generally, it is important that I say the Government takes issues such as child poverty and housing very seriously. As I said yesterday, I believe homelessness is a stain on our society. We will do everything we can to reduce it in the years ahead and eliminate it if possible. The housing plan is working but it will take time. We are seeing a very significant increase in the number of social houses being built and provided. There will be about 2,000 this year and 3,800 next year. When one adds in other things such as voids, long-term leases and purchases of privately developed housing, it will be 7,000 next year. This year if we take the private and public sector together we will probably build more new homes than any year since 2010. What happened in this country, largely as a consequence of economic mismanagement in the past, was a construction and banking collapse. As a consequence of that, for the best part of seven years very few new homes were built either by the private sector or the Government so we are catching up on seven years during which there was no housing supply. It will take us time to catch up. Notwithstanding that, every day people are being housed by the Government. Every working day, 80 individuals and their families are provided with housing by the Government. They are new tenancies and by next year, we will increase it to 100 a day. We are starting to see some results. It is significant that the number of families in bed and breakfast accommodation and hotels is falling and shows evidence of some progress. I was pleased to visit one of the family hubs last week to see how they operate and to see the quality of the accommodation that is now provided.

When it comes to rough sleeping, we have provided extra capacity in the system to make sure that nobody has to sleep rough over the winter period and into the spring and beyond. An extra 200 single and double beds have been provided across the city to make sure nobody has to sleep rough. We know from last Sunday night's count that there were spare beds available for both men and women in the city.

In terms of the issues the Deputy raised around children in general, I have not had a chance to visit the centre but I hope to do so in the future. I do not know what type of system of means testing is used. The broader picture regarding child welfare and child poverty is that child poverty is falling again having risen for a number of years. We have seen an increase in employment which is putting more money in parents' pockets and we are seeing some real differences. They are not just words; they are real differences and real changes introduced by Government both this year and next year. For example, in a few weeks' time, the prescription charge will go down for everyone under 70, including children. We will continue to reduce it in the years ahead as resources allow. Social welfare payments are going up. They went up this year for the first time in eight years. They will go up again next year from March. We have expanded free school meals, something I did as Minister for Social Protection, to all DEIS schools and beyond DEIS schools because more than half of children who are disadvantaged are not in DEIS schools. We are making real efforts as a Government and if the Deputy is honest about it and looks at the broader picture, he will see some progress is being made but we are only getting started.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach might forgive me for being somewhat cynical about all of that because when I raised it last April, the Taoiseach's predecessor said the Government was very ambitious and that it would build 650 rapid build houses in 2017. I think 76 have been delivered. That is our problem. I have heard all this before in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017. I have heard it all and I have seen very little delivery on the ground. Ministers visited the centre and a child welfare officer could not be appointed to the centre for some reason - I do not know what it is. The centre depends on the generosity of people for money. They got €3.5 million through collections and €450,000 from Government. Surely, the least the Government could do is ensure that the Ministers who visit follow through on the visit and make sure the issue of child protection in particular is looked after and that such an officer is provided as well as a social worker and other services it requires. There are fantastic examples of volunteers. The Peter McVerry Trust, Simon Communities, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Focus Ireland and the Penny Dinners all say it is getting worse on the ground.

Comment on this

Fianna Fáil is opposing social housing. Its councillors are opposing-----

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The question I put-----

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It is a laugh.

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-----is why is the State so incapable of building houses on a scale necessary-----

Comment on this

The Deputy should talk to some of his councillors.

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-----to match the emergency of the housing crisis. We have 35,000 people on the HAP scheme now.

HAP has been the main instrument to stem the tide here but it is not satisfactory.

Comment on this

The Deputy's time is up.

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In my view, to date the initiatives have failed spectacularly relative to the scale of the crisis and the number of children and adults who are homeless. I say that genuinely. The plans have not worked.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

On the first matter, I will check up on the issue of the social worker and the child protection officer; the Deputy has my assurance on that. Tusla has been given a €14 million budget increase next year to allow it to hire additional staff and social workers. I will certainly check up on that with the Minister, Deputy Zappone. As the Deputy knows, this week we passed a very important child-protection milestone with the introduction at long last of mandatory reporting. That has been promised for a very long time and I am pleased to be leading the Government that made that happen this week. I particularly compliment the Independent Minister in my Government, Deputy Zappone, for delivering that and making it happen. I will raise that issue with her.

Our housing plan will take time. I have explained the backdrop to this - a six or seven-year period after the economic crisis in the causing of which Fianna Fáil had a very significant hand. We had a six or seven-year period during which the private sector was not in a position to build homes because the banks and the construction industry had collapsed.

Comment on this

The Government was in denial. It did not believe in the crisis.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Up until this year the Government was running a deficit - we still have a small deficit this year - and was not in a position to build as many homes as we would have liked to have built.

Comment on this

However, it would like to give tax cuts to the better-off in society. It is important for Fine Gael.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We are seeing that change now and housing is being built on a scale we have not seen in six or seven years. In social housing alone, this year we expect about 2,800 homes to be built. That is before voids, long-term leases, Part V houses and others are counted. Next year that figure will increase to 3,800, which will be as much as 7,000 when long-term leases, voids and purchases from the private sector are included.

Comment on this

I thank the Taoiseach.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It cannot just go up like this. Housing construction has to be scaled up in a way that is sustainable. It requires sites, planning permissions, land, carpenters, plumbers and engineers. We also need councillors on board. That will take time.

Comment on this

That question went on in excess of ten minutes. The rules of the House provide for eight minutes. Perhaps we might look at providing additional time for questions if people are going to continue to ignore the rules and speak on.

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The Ceann Comhairle would want another warning on his clock.

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I would be afraid of that.

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