We use Google Analytics to see which pages are read and how the site is used, so we know what to improve. This only runs if you accept. See our privacy notice for details.

Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Teacher recruitment and school staffing

Summary

Deputy Micheál Martin argues there is a crisis in attracting and retaining teachers, especially for teacher training and substitutes. The Taoiseach defends the status of teachers, says graduate numbers and teacher employment are stable, and says specific shortages are being examined.

There was a time in Ireland when the teacher, and especially the primary school principal, held a celebrated status in the village or the community. The literary achievements of our people, the economic expansion from the 1960s onwards and the overall development of our society was built on a foundation of good quality teaching at primary and second level schools. It is key to continued societal development and health.

The key dynamic in the learning experience remains the relationship between teacher and child and the teacher and the student in the classroom. To nurture that relationship we need to invest in our teachers, in their training, in their pay and conditions and in the quality of their teaching experience. In short we must always seek to attract our brightest and best to the teaching profession. We are not doing that at the moment in this country. Second level schools in particular are finding it extremely difficult to recruit teachers in the subjects of science, technology, engineering, maths, Irish, German, French and much more. Overall, the applications to become second level teachers have dropped precipitously from some 3,000 in 2011 to just over 1,000 in 2017. There have been only 600 applications as of 9 January 2018.

The costs of becoming a secondary school teacher are too expensive. It costs more than €10,000 to complete a postgraduate Master's in Education over a two year period. Unfortunately, postgraduate programmes have now become the new cash cow for universities to help them deal with the neglect by the Government and the starvation of Government funding towards universities. Our capacity to attract young people into teaching is damaged as a result of this reality. Six years to become a second level teacher is, in my view, excessive. This needs urgent review.

There is a substitute teacher supply crisis at primary school level. The Catholic Primary Schools Management Association estimates that 90% of schools experience difficulties in sourcing substitute teachers, which is especially acute in special education where there are huge difficulties in this context. More than 3,600 unqualified people were employed as teachers in the past year. The State Examinations Commission reported a crisis in attracting suitably qualified teachers to conduct examinations.

We need an urgent intervention. We also need a roadmap for achieving full pay equality for teachers. Why has the Minister been so lethargic and inept in dealing with this issue? The Teaching Council completed a report in 2015 around teacher supply in Ireland and it was suppressed until May 2017. Why is there a lack of a comprehensive approach and intervention to resolve this crisis in teacher recruitment?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

First, I believe that the school principal still holds the position of very high respect and regard in our society. I do not believe that has changed. School principals are still very much leaders of our communities. It is also the case that teachers hold the position of high respect and high regard in our communities. I do not believe that has changed. Compared to other countries, Ireland has a very good and well performing education system and education service. This is in no small part due to the quality of our teachers, now and in the past.

Since the change of Government, since Deputy Martin's party left office and my party got the privilege to lead the Government, we have had 8,900 more teachers working in our schools than we had then. There has been a significant increase in the numbers of teachers working in our schools. This has escalated particularly in the last two years. There are 5,000 more teachers than two years ago working in our schools and teaching our children. This is evidence of the Government's commitment to education. When considered in cash terms, the education budget for 2018 is €10 billion. This is the first time the education budget has exceeded €10 billion. This demonstrates our commitment. I believe that the people who are going into teacher training are among the brightest and the best. I do not agree with Deputy Martin's comments that the people going into teacher training are not among the brightest and the best. I disagree with that. I think people who are-----

Comment on this

When did I say that?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy must read back what he said.

Comment on this

Do not mislead the House.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

People who are going into teacher training are among the brightest and best still, notwithstanding the fact that applications have gone down. Applications for college courses are very cyclical. We see this all the time. When the private sector and the economy are going well lots more people gravitate towards courses such as information communication technology, business and architecture because there are enormous opportunities there. When the economy is going less well the CAO applications tend to go much more towards public sector jobs because they are more secure and one may be more likely to get a job there at a time when there are lay-offs in the private sector. That is to be expected and it is a normal, cyclical approach that happens with CAO applications.

Pay restoration is very much under way. The starting salary for a new teacher is in the region of €35,000, which is a good starting salary by any account. We are engaged in discussions with unions about a pathway to restore and equalise the pay of new entrants. That is something we want to do, but we also need to bear in mind the other demands. We want to set aside money, for example, for special needs assistants. We have more special needs assistants than we have gardaí at the moment. We also want to set aside important funds to improve the quality of our school buildings. We have to balance these different demands.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach should answer the questions that are asked. The Taoiseach has a tendency to engage in partisan politicking in response to genuine questions asked. The Taoiseach distorts and gives dishonest responses. I never said that we were not attracting the brightest and the best. I said we had a crisis in attracting teachers in the first instance, which we have. The Taoiseach has failed to address the figures.

The Taoiseach has also failed to address the issue of the postgraduate master's degree in education. The number of applications fell from 3,000 in 2011 to 600. School principals throughout the country are articulating the crisis, particularly in second-level education. Why? It is because there has been a lack of a comprehensive response from the Government to the teacher recruitment issue.

We all know that the demographic dividend is a key factor in the increase in the number of teachers and that, in the confidence and supply agreement, Fianna Fáil forced the Government's hand to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio. However, the underlying issues in teacher recruitment remain, particularly at second level. There has been the casualisation of the workforce at second level, the postgraduate master's degree is expensive and it takes up to six years to qualify, and there is a lack of numbers in the undergraduate programmes offering concurrent degrees for teachers. All of these issues have been highlighted over the years but there has been complete inaction by the Government on the teacher recruitment crisis that schools are currently experiencing. Will the Taoiseach accept that there is such a crisis and that it needs comprehensive intervention from Government?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

With respect, if the Deputy does not wish to be partisan, he will have to lead by example and not be partisan in the statements he makes and the questions he asks.

Comment on this

That is not true. There is a crisis.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

He cannot be partisan at one moment and then accuse me of being partisan in my response. Whatever standard we apply in this House in terms of partisanship should apply to everyone and not just to the Government.

The number of people graduating from teaching programmes is stable and the percentage of people getting jobs in Ireland has increased. As I said, 5,000 more teachers are working in our service than two years ago. There are difficulties in certain areas. We are very much aware that many schools are struggling to get substitutes.

Comment on this

The Government is doing nothing.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This is in part down to the fact that so many younger teachers now have permanent posts. We need to examine encouraging retired teachers, of which there are so many now, to come back and substitute. In addition, there are real difficulties recruiting for certain subjects, particularly specialised subjects. The Minister is examining this aspect. However, as is the case in other areas of the public service where a general recruitment problem does not exist but there is a specific recruitment problem in particular areas, this requires making decisions for which it can be difficult to get support, that is, by making distinctions between different teachers teaching different subjects. That type of thing can be difficult to agree.

Comment on this

The Government has made no decisions. It has done nothing on this.

Comment on this

They have taken the Taoiseach's advice and gone abroad.

Comment on this