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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Brexit backstop and withdrawal agreement

Summary

Deputy Donnelly sought reassurance that the backstop would remain legally binding within the withdrawal agreement and not be weakened by separation into a protocol. The Minister said the December agreement must be honoured, stressed ongoing Government engagement with the British side, and emphasised maintaining a bipartisan approach and regular Opposition briefings.

Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Fianna Fáil

I wish to ask the Minister if recent developments are a cause for concern regarding a hard border. I refer specifically to reports of the backstop commitments being taken out of the withdrawal agreement and put into a separate protocol. The phase I agreement signed in December provides for three layers of protection against North-South border controls. In December, the Taoiseach and Tánaiste described these as bullet-proof, rock solid and cast iron, and we all hope they are right.

The first layer of protection was a commitment that the UK economy would remain fully aligned to the EU economy but the UK Government has repeatedly stated it will not do this and its position on this issue has been hardening in recent weeks. The second layer of protection was that the UK Government would propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland but these have not been forthcoming. Indeed few outside the UK, or probably even the UK Government, believe that such unique solutions exist. In the last few days, the European Union's chief negotiator, Mr. Michel Barnier, stated:

It is important to tell the truth. A UK decision to leave the Single Market and to leave the customs union would make border checks unavoidable.

He made that statement, as the Minister knows, in regard to Ireland.

With the first two layers of protection probably gone, we come to the final layer, the so-called backstop. The Irish Government's view is that this backstop is unambiguous and comprehensive, ensuring there will be no North-South border controls now or at any stage in the future, but many believe that there is wriggle room within what was agreed in December. Indeed, the UK Government has a much narrower, more minimalist interpretation of what it signed in December. I have put Ireland's view of the backstop directly to three UK Ministers and all three refused to accept Ireland's view as to the comprehensive nature of the backstop.

As of last week, the EU was creating legal text to give legal power to this backstop in order to include it in the withdrawal agreement. In the last 48 hours however, Ms Jennifer Bray of The Times, Ireland edition, reported this is no longer the case and the legal text for the backstop will now be taken out of the withdrawal agreement and put in a separate protocol. Bloomberg reported that this protocol would sit alongside but outside the withdrawal agreement. While protocols can, of course, be legally enforceable, in an interview just this week a Conservative peer, when warning about the loss of rights that might happen in the UK, said the following; "The Government [he was referring to the UK Government] does not intend to take into English law the protocols of European Union laws". That interview took place in the last 48 hours.

Moving the backstop out of the withdrawal agreement and into a separate protocol feels like a political fudge. We all hope it is not but that is what it feels like. The backstop may be the only protection left against hard border controls on the island and it feels as though it has just been weakened. I therefore wish to ask the Minister the following questions. Is it true that the legal text for the backstop is being taken out of the withdrawal agreement to sit in a separate protocol? If that is true, why is it being done? Does the Government believe that this represents any weakening of the backstop and protections? Finally, with two of the three layers of protection gone and questions arising on the final one, is it fair to say that the December agreement could no longer be described as bullet-proof?

Comment on this
Simon Harris Minister for Health Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Donnelly for his questions and will begin by saying the December agreement is the agreement we expect to see honoured in full by the British Government. The Taoiseach had an opportunity to discuss Brexit with the British Prime Minister when they met in Belfast last week. On that occasion, they both reaffirmed the two Governments' shared commitments to the December agreement on Irish issues.

As Deputy Donnelly correctly outlined, work on developing the withdrawal agreement, including the relevant and important sections on the Irish issues, is very much ongoing. These provisions were welcomed, including by the Deputy, when they were achieved in December. They are very important to this country and must be delivered on in full. The Irish Government is continuing to work very closely with the EU task force on implementing the commitments that were made in December through the withdrawal agreement. This includes the fallback or default scenario. We expect this backstop option to be given full legal effect as part of the withdrawal agreement. At this juncture it is not appropriate for me to comment on exactly how these issues are reflected in the withdrawal agreement, a process that is still ongoing and is at a sensitive stage. However, we as a Government are in very regular contact with the task force, and I can tell the Deputy, the Dáil and more importantly the Irish people that we are fully satisfied with how these issues are being managed. We are fully satisfied that full legal effect will be given to the December agreement in any withdrawal agreement.

I will now specifically address the Deputy's two questions. Yes, we are fully satisfied that full legal effect will be given to the backstop agreement. This is not just an agreement between Ireland and Britain but an agreement between Britain and the EU. Through our very regular contact and ongoing engagement with the task force we are satisfied that the agreement must be honoured in full, and we expect that to be reflected in the withdrawal agreement.

On the second issue, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the commentary of individual Members of the British Parliament or individual members of the British Government, because Ireland is not negotiating with Britain. Ireland is negotiating as part of the EU task force. The EU task force is negotiating with the British Government. We should take encouragement as citizens from the solidarity being shown to Ireland by EU member states. My colleagues the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs and indeed all members of Government continue to highlight the importance of Irish issues to EU colleagues. We are very encouraged by the fact that we have seen so much solidarity from other member states.

I appreciate that we are at a very sensitive stage in the negotiations, and I appreciate that a very sensitive and complex discussion is going on in the British Government, upon which it would not be appropriate for me, as a member of the Irish Government, to comment. However, the Irish Government is satisfied that full legal effect will be given in the withdrawal agreement and we do not see any question of that being in any way watered down, diluted or changed.

Comment on this
Stephen Donnelly Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly Fianna Fáil

I thank the Minister for that response. We all hope he is right, because the backstop could be the last protection against border controls, which obviously nobody in this House wants to see, in common with most people on this island. I would like to ask a clarifying question and then move on to one or two other questions. When the Minister said that the backstop will be given legal effect in the withdrawal agreement, is that in answer to my question of whether it will be in a separate protocol? In other words, when he says it will be in the withdrawal agreement, is it therefore the case that it will not sit alongside the agreement in a separate protocol?

My second question regards sanctions and enforceability, because we all know what is likely to happen. There will be a legal text somewhere, be it in the protocol or the withdrawal agreement. Fianna Fáil's firm view is that it must be in the body of the main withdrawal agreement and not in a separate protocol. The UK is likely to engage in different tariffs, different regulatory issues, and put pressure on the Northern Border. It is likely that we will come to a stage where the EU rules that a certain measure cannot be introduced, because it would force it to put border controls around the Six Counties. The British government is likely to disagree, arguing that it has not imposed border controls so it has not infringed on anything. Obviously the UK will not sit within the legal jurisdiction of the EU. To what enforcement body is the Irish Government expecting to have recourse, and what types of sanctions will be available? Moreover, to repeat the clarification, is the Minister saying that the backstop will not be in a separate protocol?

Comment on this

I thank the Deputy. The bipartisan way in which we have approached Brexit is important. It is also important that, at this sensitive stage, our approach is maintained. We have shown that when we approach issues of national importance in a bipartisan manner, we can achieve great things for this country. It is important to maintain that in respect of all our commentary and engagement on Brexit. To that end, the Government remains entirely committed to engaging with the Opposition and to keeping the Deputy, as the Brexit spokesperson of his party, and other party representatives briefed.

The Government's position is that full legal effect should be part of the withdrawal agreement. At this sensitive juncture, it would be inappropriate for me to elaborate or to be more prescriptive regarding what is an ongoing negotiation between the task force and the British Government. The British Government is meeting on this today but we expect to see a full, legally enforceable agreement and all the protection that comes with that.

The Government has two jobs to do in the context of Brexit. The first is to get the best possible deal to minimise Brexit's effect on the people. Brexit is not a policy in this country but it is a huge challenge for us and we need to examine how we can deal with it. Second, we must put in place the domestic policies to Brexit-proof our economy and society. A number of measures have been introduced by Ministers in recent days. This process is at a sensitive and important stage but we expect to see full legal effect as part of the withdrawal agreement. We will certainly continue to engage in a bipartisan manner on this issue.

Comment on this