Mortgage sales and banking policy
Deputy Joan Collins condemned the proposed sale of distressed mortgages to vulture funds and argued for stronger protections, while the Taoiseach said new legislation and court safeguards were being considered. The discussion then moved to banking policy more broadly, with calls for public banking and debate over State support for banks and recovery of bailout money.
There has been much hand-wringing and crocodile tears shed in respect of the proposed sale by Permanent TSB of 18,000 distressed mortgages to unregulated vulture funds which the Taoiseach had control of under his watch. What Permanent TSB, Ulster Bank or potentially AIB are proposing to do is entirely in line with Fine Gael policy in government over the past five years.
Tens of billions of euros have been sold off to hedge funds, private equity giants and international banks. The biggest seller in this was the State through the medium of the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA. The liquidation of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC, facilitated the sell off of €22 billion in loans in a matter of months. This all started, appropriately enough, in Davos in 2014 when the then Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, met with representatives of American vulture fund, Lone Star. They offered to buy all of NAMA's debt and was turned down. When Deputy Noonan returned, he asked NAMA how it could tap into this international demand for distressed Irish assets. NAMA moved from managing assets to a sell off agency - the very thing which NAMA was supposed to prevent. A fire sale of distressed assets was actually initiated by NAMA under the Taoiseach's Government's watch.
Tax breaks were also introduced to further entice the vultures. Only €20,000 was paid in tax by 24 different companies despite controlling €20 billion in assets. The use of section 110 allowed huge investment entities from the United States to pay between €75 and €250 in tax. It is shameful. Fine Gael policy, without a whimper of protest from the Labour Party in government, was to save the banks. If people lost their homes or small businesses, that was just collateral damage.
There is now talk of extending Central Bank regulations to cover the vulture funds. The idea this is a solution for people with mortgage arrears will not stop repossessions or evictions. It does not correspond with reality. Yesterday, in my constituency, an elderly man in poor health was due to be evicted. After our intervention the sheriff has agreed to postpone the eviction for a month. We have been trying to find alternative accommodation for him for two years. We have not been able to do it through the council. That is the reality of people's lives.
I suggest to the Taoiseach, as a key part of the solution, as per the Irish Congress of Trade Unions' charter for housing rights, that there should be no evictions without suitable alternative accommodation. There can be no evictions to nowhere. Evicting a family or an individual into homelessness must be prohibited by law. That has to be the case because we know the resolutions are only voluntary with the banks and lenders. People are facing evictions. Immediate emergency legislation is needed to amend the Housing Act 1998 to give local authorities a statutory duty in this area and the resources necessary to back them up. Will the Taoiseach do this?
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I totally appreciate the considerable concern that exists around the proposed sale of mortgages by Permanent TSB. It has struck a raw nerve with the people. Many people raised it with me over the weekend. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, is examining this matter. We agreed to accept in principle legislation from Fianna Fáil to extend regulation over investment funds. We are bringing forward legislation proposed by the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, to strengthen the courts in their requirement to take into account family circumstances such as the ones the Deputy mentioned when it comes to repossession. We are looking at other options as well. We are very much on the side of honest people who are making an honest attempt to pay their mortgage, to pay down their loans if they can and to settle their debts.
In Ireland we have strong protections for homeowners, for borrowers and for mortgage holders. If one looks at a the number of repossessions relative to other countries, it is much less likely that a home will be repossessed in Ireland than in many other countries, such as Spain, the UK and many others. That is because of the strong protections we give to homeowners and borrowers in terms of property rights and the rights that apply to those individuals. The number of repossession orders is going down. We have been told on many occasions there would be a tsunami of repossessions. In fact, the numbers have been going down.
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The vulture funds get their hands on them.
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We do need to make a distinction here. We need to make sure that the courts are allowed to hear cases. There may be circumstances whereby somebody can pay but is refusing to pay. That is a different circumstance and we have a good court system. People go into the courts, tell their story and their case is heard. The courts generally make the right decisions and do not provide eviction orders or repossession orders without grounds for doing so.
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The Taoiseach's Government saved the banking system but at a huge cost to ordinary people. It might seem that everything is fine. Bank of Ireland made a profit of €1 billion last year. It is paying a dividend to shareholders for the first time since 2008. The new chief executive is doing well too on €1 million a year. The European Central Bank, ECB, does not agree. There are €34 billion in non-performing loans in the system - the reason for the ECB pressure to resolve the situation. This one size fits all European policy is not enough.
I do not believe Bank of Ireland will be as generous in compensating those on tracker mortgages from whom it stole money. On Monday night, there was an attempted eviction of a family in Balbriggan. This family was engaged with the bank and was paying the agreed amount. However, a move was still made to move the family out of its home. The main point I want to make is that the Central Bank regulations, the mortgage arrears resolution process, MARP, does not guarantee no repossessions if people engage with the lender. I have experienced that as I am sure everybody in this Chamber has. Some 10% of Members go to Mr. David Hall of the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation looking for support. We are all engaging in these situations with the bank. I repeat the point that there is a solution and there is action that can be taken. The Taoiseach should bring in a law, amend the Housing Act 1998 and try to attempt to stop evictions and make sure people do not go into homelessness.
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It is always the case when a new law is debated in this House that there is the law itself and the law of unintended consequences. There is a distinction to be made between people who are making an honest attempt to pay their mortgage, settle their debts and pay as much as they can pay, and people who could do so but who are not. There is a difference in that regard and any reasonable person will recognise that.
In regard to what the Government is doing, in addition to what I have said, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, is in consultation with the Central Bank to review the code of conduct on mortgage arrears. That code of conduct already exists. We want to examine whether it can be strengthened or whether it should perhaps not be voluntary.
I often hear people talking about this Government or a previous Government saving the banking system, as if that was just about bankers. Let us not forget what the banking system is. It is millions of people's deposits and savings.
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Millions of people in Anglo Irish Bank?
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Bring in a public banking system and give people an alternative.
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It is the money companies hold on deposit to pay their staff. It is necessary to have a banking system to ensure that people can get loans, mortgages to buy homes, credit to keep their businesses going or credit to set up a business. We also must ensure that people get decent interest rates. There is a huge distinction between banks such as Anglo Irish Bank, which was bailed out by a Government of which I was not a member, and banks such as Bank of Ireland and AIB, which were bailed out by this Government and for a good reason. It was to protect people's deposits, to protect jobs and payroll and to make sure people could continue to have access to credit.
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They got a lot of deposits as well - about €50 billion.
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The difference when it comes to the last two banks is that we will recover that money.
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They were all part of the one decision.