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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Media regulation and funding

Summary

Eamon Ryan questioned the Taoiseach on Facebook, data protection, and how to increase support for Irish media. The Taoiseach replied that GDPR and data protection legislation were already advancing, defended his record, and said the Oireachtas media-funding report was still under consideration because public money must be balanced against other priorities.

I have two media questions for the Taoiseach. I listened here to the sweet words that were blown up to our friends in the Press Gallery about the importance of the media and how it is central to our democracy. We heard a lot of that in recent weeks. I agree with the Taoiseach.

It is interesting today to note that we have the head of global policy in Facebook coming before an Oireachtas committee to answer questions about Cambridge Analytica and the effect of some of the new media companies on the democratic system. I think Facebook is more of a publisher than a platform. The evidence of that in this country is that Facebook and Google are taking in more than €300 million in advertising revenue that previously went, by and large, to Irish media companies. It is the same with Netflix. Figures out today show that its revenue is growing by 20% a year. Spotify's revenue is growing by 30% per year. Sky is taking €500 million in profit out of the country and Irish media are on their knees.

I looked to find what the Taoiseach has said and done about the situation. The first thing he did was to get rid of the digital Minister from his Department. I looked at the Facebook page of the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Breen. I learnt a lot about County Clare, a county I love, but I learnt next to nothing about what he had to say in the past year about the digital issues of our time.

I sought to find out what the Taoiseach had to say when he went to see Facebook. He was in the beautiful roof garden in the Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park. The Taoiseach said his main purpose was to assure Facebook that the pro-business, pro-enterprise, pro-trade policies that have been pursued in the past would continue to be followed into the future. He could not have been clearer that we would be pro-business. There was not a word about good regulation and high standards, and there has not been a word from the Taoiseach about his thoughts on the matter since we heard about Cambridge Analytica. That is important, given the importance of those companies to us. They are important to my city. Thousands of jobs are involved. We have to get them and we will hold onto them when we have high standards. The world is seeking to invest in places that are not just pro-business, pro-trade and "whatever we can do for you", but have ethics, values and standards.

My first question to the Taoiseach is what questions I should put on his behalf to the head of global policy at Facebook with regard to Cambridge Analytica. Is there anything the Taoiseach wants to say to the company following what we have discovered in the past two to three weeks?

My second question is how the Taoiseach is going to fund Irish media if all the money is going to Facebook, Google, Sky and others.

I asked the Taoiseach this question a few weeks ago in the context of promised legislation, but he had no answer to it. He just said there was a Bill coming. The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Denis Naughten, came into the Dáil on the last sitting day before the Easter recess and made a speech in which he effectively said that the Government was doing nothing in funding Irish media. The Government will not take on board the recommendations of the Oireachtas committee which set out how we could raise a pot of between €60 million and €70 million per year that would go to Irish television, radio, music, content creators, film and drama producers.

My third question is: what does the Government intend to do? All of the pious talk about the need for legislation to protect sources is fine, but, first and foremost, we need to make sure the companies survive. How is the Government going to fund Irish media if it is not going to accept the Oireachtas committee's recommendations in that regard?

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The Deputy will get front page headlines tomorrow.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Sometimes when I hear the Deputy preaching from his perch on the edge of the Chamber, I almost forget-----

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Forget what?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----the fact that he was not just elected to the Dáil in 2016. He was, of course, Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources for four and a half years. He had responsibility for this area for four and a half years when he served in office with Fianna Fáil during that disastrous Government which led the country to bankruptcy, never mind individual enterprises. Rather than concentrating on what the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Breen, and I say or do not say, perhaps he might account for his own lack of action during the four and a half years during which he held that office.

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I will happily account for my time in office if the Taoiseach answers my questions.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am not in a position to advise the Deputy on what questions he should ask Facebook. He is intelligent enough to develop his own questions. In terms of legislation and regulations, he should be aware that the Government is bringing through legislation on data protection. The GDPR legislation is far reaching and deals very much with privacy and data protection issues. It is real action by the Government and real legislation of the kind that was not brought forward when the Deputy held office for four and a half years.

On funding media organisations, as the Deputy knows, there is some State funding for media organisations through television licence fee income which, in the main, goes to RTÉ and also to the broadcasting fund. Beyond that, media organisations are private businesses, independent of the Government, and funded by their customers. If Facebook, Google, newspapers or radio stations make money, it is because they are providing content or doing things their customers want.

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Deputy Eamon Ryan has one minute.

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The Taoiseach still has a minute and a half of his time left; perhaps he might use it to say something more on the issue.

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The Taoiseach said what he had to say.

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He said nothing.

I am proud of my time in government. I am proud that I travelled all over the world to get some of those businesses to come to this country. I am proud that I stood as a Minister against the Department of Justice and Equality that wanted to do all sorts of things with regard to data retention. We had an ethical principle and a vision of where the digital revolution was going, but it is deeply despairing that in the past seven years, for which Fine Gael is accountable, it seems to have disappeared out the door. It is because we need these digital industries, which I support because we need the digital revolution to do a whole load of things, that I want high standards.

The Taoiseach did not answer my second question. He spoke about private businesses and their rights, but RTÉ is not a private company; it is a public company. With all other radio stations, it needs support. We need to increase the broadcasting fund, extend it to the print media and allow people to bid for that funding. The Taoiseach has failed to answer the question on so many occasions. His Government is going to do nothing as Irish media wilt on the vine and all of the business goes to international multimedia companies. That is an insult to the media in this country and a threat to our democracy. The Government needs to fund media if we are to have a proper institution to protect our democracy.

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The Deputy's time is up.

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Will the Taoiseach answer the second question, rather than cast aspersions back? What will he do to increase funding for Irish media, as recommended by the Oireachtas committee?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am not really sure what the Deputy is asking, but I note that he used the term "cast aspersions back". Obviously, in his mind it is okay to cast aspersions, but it is totally indefensible or unacceptable for me to dare to respond or cast them back. That is the double standards one so often gets from the Green Party. It does not just disagree with you; it is also better than you. That is fundamental to its attitude to others and politics.

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Will the Taoiseach answer the question?

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Bring Deputy Enda Kenny back.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The report of the Oireachtas committee is under consideration, but the Deputy must bear in mind that taxpayers' money is the peoples' money. The report recommends a different way to collect the television licence fee which would require people who do not have a television to pay a television licence fee. We must bear in mind that when we talk about public funding, we are talking about taxpayers' money. We have to consider whether people want to spend more money in funding media organisations or whether they would prefer the money to be spent on other things like education, health care or disability services.

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