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Dáil
‹ Questions on Promised Legislation

CervicalCheck audit and screening

Summary

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald and others press for release of the CervicalCheck audit report and criticise how the O'Brien matter has been handled. Brendan Howlin then raises the new HPV-based screening test and GP access for retesting, and the Taoiseach says the report will be dealt with by the Health Minister and that the new test is more accurate.

I want to ask the Taoiseach about the serious incident management team conducting an audit into CervicalCheck. I understand the audit formed the basis of a report presented yesterday evening to Tony O'Brien, who is still director general of the HSE. Given the level of confusion and misinformation that has marked this sorry episode, the report should be made available to Members.

I also want again to register my huge anger and bemusement that far from Mr. O'Brien being dealt with and removed from his post, not alone will he go off with his pension and a gratuity but he is being facilitated in the way previously described to participate on a board and receive fees for that in a manner that is a clear conflict of interest. That offers an interesting perspective on the Taoiseach's style of government and his attitude as head of Government, not least to the women of this country.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I have not seen the report but I will ask the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, to respond to Deputy McDonald's question.

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I have no axe to grind with Mr. O'Brien but there is clearly a conflict of interest and it is not proper for him to be a board member of a health provider and director general of the HSE.

I seek clarity on a statement made this morning by the Taoiseach. Myriad questions on this issue will have to be asked and answered in the coming days. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, yesterday stated that the HSE is to introduce a new screening test from October. The current cytology test used by CervicalCheck has a low sensitivity of between 60% and 75% and, as a consequence, produces a not insignificant number of false negative results. It is to be replaced by a new HPV test which produces more accurate results. According to the documents published yesterday, the new test tests for HPV which is responsible for 70% of cervical cancers. Are we moving from a less accurate universal test which produces up to 30% false negatives to a more accurate test which is ineffective for 30% of cervical cancers?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am somewhat out of date when it comes to medicine. It is a very valid question but I would not to give an answer as I am not an expert in the area. The new test to which we are moving is more accurate.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We will be among the first countries in the world to move to that test.

The Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, did a detailed health technology assessment, HTA, on this and came to that conclusion. I have not had a chance to read that yet. I would invite the Deputy to examine the HIQA HTA on that which would explain all these issues.

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The Taoiseach promised the women of Ireland that they can be retested by their general practitioner, GP. That is very welcome because cervical testing and screening is very important. However, questions arise. In my office alone there are three women who cannot get appointments with their doctors. There is a crisis with GP services. One woman can get an appointment at the end of May. The other two women were told the GP was not taking appointments. In areas like Cavan-Monaghan, it is impossible to get an appointment with a GP.

First, can the Taoiseach address how that will happen for the tens of thousands of women who are very worried now? Second, who is doing the testing? Will it be the same outsourced companies that failed Vicky Phelan and probably tens of thousands of other women? When we get to the truth of this issue and get past the tip of the iceberg, I reckon we will find that thousands of women have been failed. Will the same outsourced companies do the testing or has the Taoiseach made alternative arrangements?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As I think I explained yesterday in the Dáil, 50% of the tests are done in Irish laboratories and 50% are done in US laboratories. Two US laboratories are used - one in New Jersey and one in Texas - and one laboratory is used in the Coombe hospital, not too far from here. The Health Service Executive audit that was done does not show any statistically significant difference in terms of the number of false negatives or false positives between the different laboratories. That is something we will have to examine. I have heard what people have said. I have heard the people talking on the radio who have raised concerns about the US laboratories but the information we have, and in the interests of women's health we should base our decisions on fact, is that they do not show a statistically significant difference in false negatives in one laboratory from the other. Until we have evidence to the contrary, we need to base our decisions on those facts.

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