Brexit negotiations and no hard border
Deputy Ryan raised concern that Brexit negotiations were reaching a critical point, with the Irish issue and future UK-EU relationship still unresolved. The Minister said the Government was pressing Ireland’s interests with UK counterparts and working with EU partners on pathways for any Brexit outcome.
We very much share the anguish that everyone feels in response to hearing the tragic stories this morning of women who feel that the State has left them down.
I want to raise a wider threat to the State and to all our people in respect of what is happening in the Brexit negotiations. The meeting in Dundalk with Michel Barnier and the interested stakeholders was very useful. It presented a very stark picture of where we are in the withdrawal negotiations, where 75% of the text of a putative withdrawal treaty has been agreed but two critical areas remain. One is the Irish issue, which in a sense is a metaphor for the wider issues about the nature of the customs arrangement that will take place between the UK and the rest of the European Union, although Ireland's concerns are very specific. The second, if we can overcome that, is the issue of governance which would effectively be the agreement of the UK Government to accept the European Court of Justice, ECJ, as the arbiter for that initial agreement and any future negotiations. The scale of the challenge in getting those two was remarkable, and then there is the transition arrangement after that where we would have to have 700 deals for a whole range of different sectors and where the EU has to have unanimity. The EU has all the negotiating power because it is staying the same and is not changing how the Union works, whereas in effect the UK must give in every area.
From what happened in London subsequent to our meeting in Dundalk last week, it seems clear that the UK Government seems completely incapable of addressing that challenge. The Tory party is split like a log divided in two by an axe. There seems no way by which the two parts of that party will come together. As there is an opposition there that is not putting forward an alternative, it is hard to see how agreement might come from the UK Parliament.
There seems an increasingly high risk that the UK will crash out of the EU, where there will be no draft treaty withdrawal agreement. Yesterday, the Taoiseach said that he has not spoken to the British Prime Minister in six weeks. However, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, has met and spoken to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Philip Hammond. Is the Minister starting to work with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on plans for such an eventuality and how we can avoid the absolute economic carnage that would take place in the event of a crash-out Brexit without any withdrawal or trade deal, where presumably we would revert to World Trade Organization, WTO, rules and where there would be incredible economic dislocation?
We have had a good process with the Tánaiste, Deputy Coveney, on the talks. However, we have not looked at the "emergency, brace yourself, we are about to crash" scenario. It is time that we did that. It is time that the Government and all the parties sat down about this, perhaps in private as some of these matters are difficult to discuss publicly. The responsible thing to do for Irish society, North and South and our relationship with the UK, would be for us to start thinking about what we would do in that scenario because to me, that scenario seems like the most likely. If there is any reason that the Minister can question my logic, I would be glad to hear it. I also would be interested to hear what the Minister and the Chancellor, Philip Hammond, are working on in this incredibly threatening and complex process.
Comment on this
It is correct that I met the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Philip Hammond, some weeks ago while I was in Bulgaria at a meeting of European finance ministers. The Tánaiste is in the UK today and will also meet the Chancellor and the Minister for the Cabinet Office, David Lidington, to review where negotiations stand and once again articulate the Irish national interest in the negotiations. The Government and this House need a clear pathway and framework to ensure that in the case of any eventuality that could occur when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, our interests in respect of Northern Ireland, specifically in ensuring that there is no return to a hard border, are delivered. That is the Government's public position and what all our efforts, privately and otherwise, seek to secure.
The Government has done a significant amount of contingency planning to look at the different scenarios that could develop. I will speak to the Tánaiste about seeing how that could be shared. I understand that some of it may already have taken place and that there have been stakeholder fora where political parties, politicians and stakeholders are present. As we approach June and beyond, we are entering a period where it is crucial for Ireland to secure its objectives for the island and its stability. We have the support of the European Union in so doing and will work very hard to ensure it happens.
Regarding the Deputy's analysis of what is under way in the UK, it is not appropriate for me to comment on the internal workings of another government. I will leave that to the Deputy. I would say it is interesting that in the votes which are taking place in the British Parliament, in the House of Lords and others that could occur in the future in the House of Commons, views are beginning to crystalise on what form of Brexit could happen. That could yet have an effect on issues that the Government and the Dáil will need to respond to later in the year.
Comment on this
I agree with the strategy of holding to no hard border but I am concerned that we are putting ourselves at the epicentre of a bigger problem, namely, that the Tory Government cannot agree anything about the future relationship between the UK and Europe. It is putting Ireland at the central point of what is the bigger problem, which is that the Tories want to have their cake and eat it but will now not be able to get it. We must be careful that we see the bigger picture.
The stakeholders forum has been very useful but we have not looked in detail about what will happen in a crash-out scenario where there is no withdrawal deal. As I understand it, in those circumstances there would not be a backstop arrangement then because that is part of the deal. Our discussion on this in Dundalk was interesting. The impact it would have on the beef and cheese sector, for instance, is that overnight there would be tariffs of 50% or 60%. However, it is not just those sectors. How would the financial services sector manage in those circumstances? What would happen to all the digital services companies or flights between the various jurisdictions? In every one of those 700 areas where we have to seek agreement, if we do not have a transition arrangement, there will be an economic crash and we will be stuck in the middle.
I ask a question of the Minister and he can respond through the Tánaiste and it could be in private rather than public, because the issues are sensitive and difficult, but we need to start preparing for that now. We need to start being honest and upfront with the UK Government about where we are at. It is not merely an Irish Border problem now, the whole arrangement is in deep trouble and we must start getting ready for that.
Comment on this
Many of the issues at the epicentre - to use the Deputy's phrase - of how the United Kingdom will leave the European Union are crystalised in the very issues with which the Government and Dáil are dealing.
Many of the issues that are at the heart of Britain's future relationship with the European Union in respect of customs policy, access to the Single Market and the role of the European Court of Justice could have their most tangible manifestation in the issues with which we are now dealing on our island. That is why we have been working so closely with the European Union task force led by Michel Barnier and why Mr. Barnier was in Dundalk last week. I was there myself for most of the day. Both he and the task force have a very clear understanding of the issues that Ireland faces because they are at the heart of the issues which will define the relationship between the UK and the EU.
I will answer the two questions the Deputy put to me. The first was whether we are being direct with the British Government regarding the challenges and our national interests in this regard. The answer to that question is yes, but we are doing this primarily through the EU task force led by Michel Barnier. The second question had regard to the degree of contingency planning that is under way. Again I can tell the Deputy that planning is very advanced. It is dealing with many different possible outcomes. I have direct responsibilities for areas relating to banking and financial services and for what it would mean if we were met with the vista the Deputy described. We have much work done and more under way in that regard.