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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Eighth Amendment referendum

Summary

Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Tánaiste to challenge misleading anti-repeal claims and affirm that the referendum was about women deciding for themselves. The Tánaiste said the campaign should stay factual and respectful, recognised sincere views on both sides, and argued the aim was to reduce crisis pregnancies and the need for terminations.

I appeal to the Tánaiste, in the last week of this most historic campaign on the referendum to repeal the eighth amendment, to join me in putting some things to bed with the public, who are continually indicating that there is a degree or level of confusion about what this is about. Will the Tánaiste join me in saying to the population that women's lives matter indeed and that this referendum is not about a licence to kill, as has been indicated by posters, women being murderers, or the wholescale slaughter of babies with disability?

It is about an emotive, sensitive and deeply personal issue related to women's health. In that context, women need to be given the right to make decisions about their lives. The results of a poll published today in The Irish Times were very interesting. They showed that when asked whether they would like the eighth amendment to be repealed, 44% of respondents answered "Yes". However, when asked whether they believed the law in Ireland needed to be changed to recognise a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, 62% of respondents answered "Yes". The confusion has been caused by imagery that is deliberately misleading and false and messaging that is untruthful and makes a mockery of women's lives and the deeply divisive and difficult choices they must often make.

We want to move away from the legacy of the Magdalen laundries, mother and baby homes in Tuam and elsewhere, the shaming and stigmatising of women and the wholesale export and outsourcing of women's healthcare to Britain and elsewhere when they face a crisis pregnancy. We need to endorse the view expressed by Irish people in large numbers that this is about a woman's right to decide. We must provide this clarity in a highly divisive debate in which the issue has been framed in terms of murder and manslaughter and the killing of babies, which is not the case. Later today I will be joined in Buswells Hotel by women who will give testimony about having an abortion for many and various reasons. They include not having a home - as a former Minister with responsibility for housing, the Tánaiste will be well aware of the number of women and children who are homeless; being in an abusive relationship, as we know from the statistics for domestic violence and sexual abuse; not having a decent job; and facing the possibility of losing a job. There are as many reasons as there are women.

I ask the Tánaiste to join me in condemning any attempt to portray women as murderers or paint the referendum as being about a licence to kill people with disabilities or babies. I ask him to join me in clarifying the position for the public.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Bríd Smith for giving me an opportunity to speak about this issue. As the Taoiseach stated earlier in the week, with some notable exceptions, the referendum campaign has, by and large, been respectful. Given that this is such a divisive and difficult issue for many, people have engaged in considered discussion of it in their homes. I have spoken to many people in their homes about the issue and they want facts. We should try to look at the facts, rather than the posters. We must recognise that in any campaign as emotive and divisive as this one, one gets people who are desperate to win an argument and who may present the facts in a very emotive manner. I respect both sides in the referendum campaign.

I passionately believe and hope the people will vote "Yes" next week because doing so would be a reflection of reality. Abortion is a reality in Ireland and the truth is that the law that applies to abortion for Irish women is British abortion law. Every year thousands of women are given a piece of paper with an address indicating where they should go, as long as it not here, thanks very much. I am not willing to stand over that any more, which is the reason I am advocating a "Yes" vote.

I could make many emotive arguments around rape, incest and fatal foetal abnormalities. I have met many women who had to face these challenges and they chose to speak to me because of this debate. Over time, my perspective on this issue changed on the basis of facts, as opposed to posters, conversations and listening to horror stories that we continue to allow as an unintended consequence of a change made to the Constitution in the 1980s. I do not believe people expected what subsequently transpired. The truth is that abortion is a reality in Ireland and women are making choices without support from the health system and doctors that is appropriate at a time of real vulnerability. If the people give the Oireachtas permission, we must change the current position.

I reassure the many people who are still undecided, those who recognise a change is needed but are a little concerned that it may go too far, that if they vote "Yes", there are many Members of the Oireachtas who will ensure the change we will make in legislation, if given the opportunity to do so, will respect and protect women in a much more comprehensive way than we have been able to do to date. In doing so, we will also recognise the responsibility of the State towards providing protections for the unborn. What the Government is proposing to do, with the support of many other Members, will strike the right balance if we are given the opportunity to do so through a "Yes" vote. We will not be able to do anything if the people vote "No" because it will mean a freezing of time. We will be stuck with all of the dilemmas we face today and turn a blind eye to many of them if we do not choose to change.

Comment on this

I fully agree with everything the Tánaiste said. While I also recognise that a divisive debate is taking place, I want the Tánaiste to join me in stating the use of misleading information and ugly imagery and the claim that what is proposed is a licence to kill are confusing people. If they are asked whether they want to give women the right to decide for themselves, 62% answer "Yes". This is important because whatever the Tánaiste or I think, the question people are being asked is whether they believe women should decide on this societal issue. In the event that the referendum is won and people vote "Yes", we will have to deal with ancillary issues such as making contraception free and having non-ethos, objective and factually based sex education in schools. These are issues that matter for women and if the referendum does not pass, we will continue to condemn women to leave the country and younger women will be condemned to take a pill alone at home and endure a great deal of pain without the medical supervision of their doctors. There is a chill factor attached to the eighth amendment because it criminalises women and their doctors. The Tánaiste should not believe for one moment that this chill factor does not hang over the entire population, including partners and families. While I appreciate his remarks, we must clarify that the referendum is not about a licence to kill.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

As I stated previously, there are sincerely held views on both sides of the argument, including in this House, and we need to respect them on such an emotive and personal issue. For that reason, from my experience, the focus of the "Yes" campaign has been on trying to provide people with facts, ensuring doctors are listened to and addressing the challenge the country faces in this matter. Nobody is pro-abortion. What we are trying to do is reduce the number of crisis pregnancies and, insofar as possible, the need for conversations on the termination of pregnancy. A number of initiatives were launched yesterday to reinforce this message, including on education and making contraception free and easy to access. The country is also having a conversation on how Ireland should deal with circumstances in which a decision is made to terminate a pregnancy. For example, what protocols and processes will be in place and how can we wrap the health system around such decisions in a way that is supportive and offers alternatives and facts? We will insist on time being taken for full consideration of all of the issues surrounding a decision of the magnitude of terminating a pregnancy. As I stated, if the country gives the Houses an opportunity to legislate on these issues, we can put in place a much more compassionate and appropriate legal structure than the one in place because of the restrictions in the Constitution.

Comment on this