Abortion pill decriminalisation row
Deputy Ó Cuív challenged the Taoiseach over remarks about decriminalising abortion pills and asked about confidentiality for women seeking medical help. After back-and-forth, the Taoiseach corrected his interpretation of the Deputy’s position but argued the offence would remain if the referendum failed.
Yesterday in the House, the Taoiseach said, "I heard yesterday, on, I think, the "Six One News", Deputy Ó Cuív ... say we could somehow decriminalise the abortion pill or decriminalise women who seek abortions". I said neither of those things and I hope the Taoiseach will withdraw the allegation. He went on to say that I suggested we could reduce the penalty for women who have abortions from 14 years in prison. I did say that. In the Dáil yesterday, the Taoiseach stated that it is not possible. It is, of course, possible to change, by means of ordinary legislation, the criminal penalty relating to an offence under the Constitution. I will give two examples of this. Article 40.6.1° of the Constitution requires a criminal penalty in accordance with the law of blasphemy but the Defamation Act 2009 requires only a fine, not a prison term, for that offence. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform at the time that legislation was introduced, Dermot Ahern, said prosecutions were unlikely to result.
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In the context of the Criminal Law (Insanity) Act 2006, the then Minister, Senator Michael McDowell, reduced the offence for infanticide to manslaughter, which can carry a very short prison sentence, much lower than the sentence for the previous charge of murder. Using the logic of Senator McDowell's amendment in 2006, when he said reducing the penalty was about modernising the law-----
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-----we could look at doing the same thing for abortion. Can the Taoiseach confirm that a person going to a doctor and suffering from the after effects of taking the abortion pill would be protected by the doctor-patient relationship in terms of confidentiality? This has been confirmed by the chair of the Referendum Commission so I ask the Taoiseach to stop frightening women off seeking medical aid if they need it, under threat of prosecution which he, as a doctor, knows will not and cannot happen.
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I thought I heard the Deputy say yesterday that he would be in favour of decriminalising abortion pills. If that is not what he said, I am happy to acknowledge that it is not his view and to stand corrected.
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I did not say what my view is. The issue was that the Taoiseach said I said something which I did not say. My view is a different issue. Will the Taoiseach accept that I did not say it?
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I just did so. I accept that the Deputy did not say he would be in favour of decriminalising abortion pills. If there is a "No" vote on Friday, it will still be a criminal offence. I find it bizarre, however, that the Deputy believes this should be a criminal offence that is not enforced. Why would one keep something as a crime if one does not think it should be enforced? I find that unusual. While it may be the case that the doctor-patient relationship covers confidentiality, it would not prevent somebody else making a complaint to the police, which is exactly what happened in Northern Ireland. In that case, a housemate made a complaint against another housemate but that is not covered.
The penalty of 14 years was examined by both the current and previous Attorneys General. I will explain why it is 14 years. The eighth amendment states that the right to life of the unborn, even at one week's gestation, is equal to the right to life of a pregnant woman. Therefore, the penalty has to be the same. The penalty for having an abortion has to be equal to the penalty for killing a pregnant woman, which is not infanticide because, of course, infants do not get pregnant. The penalty has to be at the level of homicide or manslaughter. The penalty in that regard is, by the way, up to 14 years.