Church and state were separated more than 200 years ago in the United States and more than 100 years ago in France. In the 19th year of the 21st century, however, church and State continue to be entwined in Ireland. We have church-controlled schools, hospitals and so on. Ireland lags behind and the Government lags behind. Where blows have been struck to this arrangement - and we saw a spectacular example recently with the vote for repeal and another in respect of the baptism barrier - the impetus for change has not come from the political establishment, rather it has come from below as a result of popular pressure.

The vote of the people to repeal the eighth amendment poses questions regarding church and State rather more sharply. The Government has announced its intention to bring forward legislation which would allow surgical abortions to protect the life of the pregnant person, to protect health and, also, to allow terminations in Irish hospitals in the event of fatal foetal abnormalities. If provided for in legislation passed by this Dáil, will these services be available in hospitals controlled by the church? Will these services be provided at the new national maternity hospital, which is due to be built on a campus controlled by a company with a board dedicated to a Catholic ethos? Is the Taoiseach aware that the St. Vincent's healthcare group annual accounts for 2017 state that the future directors of this company are obliged to uphold the "values and vision" of the founder of the Sisters of Charity, Mary Aikenhead, who is currently in the process of being made a Catholic saint? Is the Taoiseach aware that the emeritus professor of theology at Maynooth University has said that this obligation requires compliance with Catholic medical ethics?

Does he think it is satisfactory that, more than one year on from the announcement that the Sisters of Charity were due to step back at St. Vincent's, the new company due to take over ownership of the campus has yet to be incorporated? Is the Taoiseach concerned that the chair of the new company is the old chair of the St. Vincent's healthcare group, which refused a tubal ligation to Clare Malone and elective contraception procedures to many others? Finally, can the Taoiseach offer a guarantee to the Dáil and, more importantly, to the women of Ireland that abortions services, if provided for in legislation passed by this Dáil, will be fully available at the national maternity hospital?

The model we intend to follow for the abortion legislation, when we are able to publish it and bring it through the Oireachtas, is precisely the model used for the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, which the House passed in 2013. That legislation will allow individuals to opt out based on their consciences or religious convictions but will not allow institutions to do so. As is the case under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013, hospitals such as Holles Street, which has a Catholic voluntary ethos, the Mater, St. Vincent's and others will be required and expected to carry out any procedure that is legal in the State. That is the model we will follow. Conscientious objection provisions will apply to individual doctors, nurses and midwives who do not want to participate in providing abortion services but it will not be possible for publicly-funded hospitals, no matter who their patron or owner is, to opt out of providing these necessary services, which will be legal in the State once the legislation is passed by the Dáil and the Seanad.

I am happy to give the Deputy that assurance.

While the Deputy is correct to say that, in the United States, church and state may be separated, the United States has certainly not taken the church or religion out of its politics. In fact, religion is probably more present in American politics than it is here in Ireland. When we speak about church and state and while we should always acknowledge the many wrongs done by church bodies in the past — people will know what they are — we should not forget that many religious-based charities and many religious bodies do very good and valuable work today. The Deputy mentioned health and education but I would also point to the homeless sector. Very good work is done in this city by Crosscare, for example.

Hear, hear.

It is an agency of the Dublin archdiocese and it provides services for people who are homeless and helps to operate some of the family hubs. I also include bodies such as the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, which does such important work with disadvantaged families around the country. I hope it is not the policy of the Socialist Party or Solidarity–People Before Profit to stop Crosscare or the Society of St. Vincent de Paul from doing the work they do. The Deputy might tell us whether it is his view that they should no longer be State funded. I believe that is his view.

Let us deal with the substance of the issue rather than side issues.

Answer the question.

That is what we are going to do. I welcome the fact that the Taoiseach said there will not be an opt-out for institutions but there are ways and means of opting out. The Taoiseach is well aware of this as a previous Minister for Health. He is well aware that, at the age of 21, Claire Hogan was refused tubal ligation at St. Vincent's Hospital despite the fact that the medical case for it was strong and overpowering. He is aware of the fact that Professor John Crown has reported on his experiences of sitting across a table from an ethics committee in St. Vincent's Hospital that objected to a cancer trial that stipulated contraception. He is also aware that we have a Catholic bishop who said that people who voted Yes should go to confession. How much pressure will there be on medical professionals in St. Vincent's Hospital?

Over 100,000 people signed a petition last year demanding that the new national maternity hospital be exclusively under public ownership. More than 1.4 million voted for repeal. The women of Ireland, the people of Ireland, expect that the new national maternity hospital will provide the abortion services sanctioned by this Dáil. Failure to provide them in full, including at St. Vincent's Hospital, with the national maternity hospital, will be met with a response from the repeal movement on a really massive scale.

As I indicated when it comes to the abortion legislation, just as is the case with the Protection of Life in Pregnancy Act, the conscientious objection will apply to individuals; it will not apply to institutions. Under that legislation, enacted by this Dáil in 2013, voluntary hospitals that have a Catholic ethos are required to provide the service if it is necessary. It will be the case that the new national maternity hospital, which I hope will go to tender this year and commence construction next year, will be required, expected and funded to provide abortion services. The new national maternity hospital will be publicly owned and publicly funded and, therefore, will provide services that this Oireachtas deems necessary. That is the position the Government is taking. I am happy to reassure the Deputy on that.

I note that the Deputy declined to answer my question.

Of course he did.

Because, unlike the Taoiseach, I stuck to my time.

That silence was, perhaps, deafening. I believe in the separation of church and state-----

Does he?

-----but I do not believe in the socialist ideology, which is to push religion out of the public space and to force people who are religious to be ashamed they have religious conviction and-----

That is shameful.

-----to hide them in a corner and to defund bodies and take public funding away from bodies such as the Vincentian Partnership for Social Justice, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Crosscare, Trócaire and Concern.

Does he support church involvement in hospitals or schools, or not?

The policy of socialists is to take away that funding because they do not just believe in the separation of church and state; they want to turn religious people into pariahs, put them in a corner and hide them and take away funding from institutions.

Nonsense.

That is a disgraceful comment.

I think that is wrong.