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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

CervicalCheck inquiry and timelines

Summary

Deputy O'Brien raised the CervicalCheck revelations, the treatment of Vicky Phelan and Emma Mhic Mhathúna, and the need for full co-operation with the Scally inquiry. The Minister said the Government had moved quickly, set up a serious incident team and scoping inquiry, and that the timetable was Dr. Scally's to set. O'Brien and other Deputies pressed on delays, missing information and whether the inquiry was being obstructed.

In April, the country was shocked and appalled by the revelations made by Vicky Phelan about her cervical smear test and how she had to go to the High Court to fight for justice, even though she had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Vicky agreed to waive her right to privacy and also refused to sign a confidentiality clause, as she wanted other women to be made fully aware of her experiences. We then heard the heart-rending radio interview given by Emma Mhic Mhathúna, a young mother of four from Kerry who had also been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Both of these women, and many hundreds of others, were unaware that an audit had taken place which showed that they had false negatives. Some 209 women who were diagnosed with cervical cancer were not told about subsequent audits showing that previous smear tests could have brought about a different outcome. The Government committed to introducing mandatory disclosure in 2015, and it has indeed been HSE policy since 2013. Yet it was exposed at the Committee of Public Accounts that CervicalCheck, the HSE and the Department of Health were informed and the audit results were knowingly withheld from the women affected.

As we know, the head of CervicalCheck immediately resigned her post and the CEO of the HSE left. It was and still is a national scandal. It has been an intense and emotional few weeks for the women and their families. It still continues. Even this morning at the Committee of Public Accounts, CervicalCheck and the HSE had to apologise to members and to the State Claims Agency for giving them incorrect information to the effect that all women affected had been told. The fact that Dr. Gabriel Scally, who was appointed by this Dáil to carry out the scoping inquiry on 8 May, has not been given all the information he requires to do what the Government and the Dáil asked him to do is absolutely outrageous. I agree with Dr. Scally when he says that it is unacceptable.

He has rightly said that he will not be stonewalled. Yet there are agencies of this State willing to drag their feet, put up obstructions and continue to behave in an inexcusable defensive manner to the Government, the Dáil and most importantly the women involved, on the basis that they believe their actions are defensible. These women, who want to get their records to examine exactly what happened, unfortunately do not have the luxury of time. The scoping inquiry was to be completed at the end of June. It has now been delayed until approximately the end of summer. I know that the Government wants the scoping inquiry completed as soon as possible, but now it looks as though that will not happen. In the scoping inquiry, information is being denied and delayed unacceptably for various administrative, medical, legal and other reasons.

Does the Minister believe it is acceptable that it has taken a full month to send documents to the scoping inquiry, and that these documents were not sent in an accessible form to the inquiry team, particularly when a deadline of the end of June was set? Does the Minister accept that the scoping inquiry is being buried under a mountain of paperwork and that the women affected deserve better? Finally, does he not agree that at this stage it would be more prudent to set up a commission of inquiry now, so that information can be sought rather than dragged from the agencies involved and so that a resolution can be found sooner rather than later?

Comment on this
Richard Bruton Minister for Education and Skills Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. It is an extraordinarily serious matter and the Government is taking it very seriously. As the Deputy knows, this was something that was never brought to the attention of the Minister or any previous Minister. The Government has set up a serious incident management team to address this, and as the Deputy acknowledged, a number of changes at senior level have been made. The scoping inquiry has been put in place and yesterday the Minister was absolutely clear, as was the Taoiseach, that full co-operation with the Scally inquiry is demanded of every agency. Moreover, serious unhappiness was expressed by the Minister with the fact that the documentation provided was not in searchable form, which made it difficult for Dr. Scally to do his work. The Minister has made it categorically clear to Dr. Scally that no such interruption in his work will be tolerated, and the Minister has been in touch with the HSE to confirm that.

As the Deputy knows, the Government sanctioned the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists to work with the women affected. They are working with them case by case and meeting them on an individual basis so their concerns can be fully addressed. In the interim period, Dr. Scally has made some very worthwhile proposals. He has made it very clear that guarantees should be given to women in the consent form that they will receive the information and that full disclosure will occur if any change in information from those smear tests is discovered. New guarantees will be put into the consent form and the HSE has indicated that will happen immediately.

In addition, new information notices are being provided to anyone doing these tests, so that it is very clear to women that there is a possibility of a smear test not being accurate. That is categorically provided. In addition he recommended that women's expenses should be provided for. A payment of €2,000 has been provided immediately, so that no woman has any difficulty in accessing the services that are being made available. The Government has also provided a care package. This is being rolled out to women who need it so that they can have access to care and to support for any expenses that arise.

This inquiry is really important. I believe the Deputy's question was addressed yesterday by the Taoiseach. He pointed out that a commission of inquiry results in longer delays. Each person will have to be lawyered up. We have seen these commissions' record of running for a very long time. Many of these women do not have such long periods to wait. It is really important that Dr. Scally, who we appointed, is allowed to do the work effectively, as he will do. He has already proved his effectiveness in the interim report he has given.

Comment on this

My party and I believe that it is actually the women and their families who need to be put front and centre. That is why my party leader raised the matter earlier in the week. It is as though some of our State agencies cannot help themselves. They are dragging their feet on this. I asked the Minister earlier if he thought it was acceptable that it has taken more than a month for incomplete information to be sent to the scoping inquiry. All the Members of this House want to make sure that we find out the truth in a very timely fashion and most importantly that the women and their families find out the truth.

However, a change of culture is needed. I actually believe that some of our agencies, the HSE and others, are still acting in a very defensive manner and defending the indefensible. That is why we firmly believe that a commission of inquiry needs to be set up, with powers to compel. I do not want us to come back in the autumn still discussing the problem of the scoping inquiry not getting the information that it needs. Can the Minister give us assurances and tell us what the end of the summer means in the context of the scoping inquiry? Will this be completed by the end of June? Will it be July? Will it be August? These women do not have the luxury of time, as the Minister himself has said.

Comment on this

As Members will know, it is Dr. Scally himself who has requested the extension of time until the end of summer.

Comment on this

He could not get the information.

Comment on this

It is at his request that this has occurred.

Comment on this

The Minister knows why, though.

Comment on this

The Deputy will also be aware that in answering questions, Dr. Scally said that while he did not have the power to compel, he expected full co-operation and was getting co-operation from those he had approached. There is no evidence that people are refusing to appear before Dr. Scally. I think if there was any suggestion that he was being interfered with, the Minister and the Government would take immediate action. However, we are confident that he will have the opportunity to complete his work. As the Taoiseach indicated yesterday, it is the Government's intention to have a full commission of inquiry in due course. However, the reason all parties in this House believed that the scoping approach was appropriate is that we needed to get quick access to certain important information. We needed to ensure that the system was changed. Already as a result of his recommendations there are changes in the guarantees that are written in to the consent form.

There are new information packages and new supports. This has come about almost immediately - within weeks - as a result of his work.

Comment on this

What about the timeframe?

Comment on this

The timeframe has been set by Dr. Scally. He has indicated that he intends to have his work completed by the end of the summer.

Comment on this