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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

Taoiseach's remarks on media

Summary

Mary Lou McDonald presses the Taoiseach on reported comments made in New York about journalists and press freedom. He strongly defends a free press, says he regrets any offence caused, and explains he was referring to social media, fake news, and specific examples of sensationalised reporting.

Fáilte ar ais. I want to raise with the Taoiseach the comments that he made in New York at what has been described as a private lunch but what I understand was an event paid for by the Irish taxpayer. His remarks, as published, referred to the Irish media. He has confirmed these remarks in part, that he is in sympathy with President Donald Trump and that he believes that Irish journalists have no interest in the truth. No more than the rest of us, as Taoiseach and Head of Government, I am sure he understands that the freedom of the press to report in the public interest without coercion, pressure or undue influence is vitally important and yet he has attacked Irish investigative journalism and he has cited RTÉ in particular. It is interesting that the Taoiseach cites the very programmes that have exposed scandals such as the hospital waiting lists, the disregard for carers and those with disabilities, the failure of the State and the Taoiseach's Government to protect children in care, and the wholesale failure of his housing policy, and we heard again not only about homeless children but also the scandal of a generation that has lost any hope of ever having a secure roof over their heads. The Taoiseach knows that time and again citizens have had to resort to media platforms to get the ear of Government and of Ministers and yet he has a problem with investigative journalism.

I suggest to the Taoiseach that if he is genuinely concerned about the Irish media, he might have remarked on the issue of media ownership in New York. He might have also been particularly concerned about the power of Denis O'Brien in Ireland's media landscape. He might have reflected that Mr. O'Brien's dominance has a chilling effect on news gathering and reporting in the public interest and on the ability of journalists to get to the truth. Had the Taoiseach said that, he would have had broad agreement here and from most journalists, but he is not interested in those legitimate issues. He simply wanted to have a go.

From the paid for content scandal earlier this year to the controversy surrounding his €5 million spin unit, the Taoiseach's interest seems to be in spin and optics. Will he tell us who was at this lunch? Will he publish or provide the names? Is there a record of the meeting? What else was discussed? Did he have any other commentary to make on other sections of Irish society and would he care to share those views with us?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is great to be back and I thank the Deputy for giving me an opportunity to clarify this matter. I strongly believe that the free press is essential for democracy to function. It is-----

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That was then; this is now.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----important and essential work and in a free society and a democracy it is as important as the parliamentary or courts system.

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In a democracy, people listen to questions being answered.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is why I support and the Government supports the work of the news media and I always try to be as accessible and open with the media as I can be. Sometimes there are tensions between the Government and media but that is as it should be. I read the story in the newspaper today and I profoundly regret if anyone in the country thinks that in any way I do not support a free press or respect the work of journalists. A free, fair and balanced media is a cornerstone of democracy and our freedoms and that is why it is so important. At the same time, it should not consider itself to be beyond reproach or above criticism. On many occasions in Irish society we have had times where groups of people or institutions felt themselves to be beyond reproach or above criticism and we know the results and consequences of that.

This was a private event. It was a two-hour lunch. It was done at my request because I wanted to sit down with young Irish people living in New York, to have an exchange of views with them and to hear what their thoughts were on the situation in America and in Ireland. I would like to be able to respect the privacy of that event but that is not possible now. There is no record of it. There was no speech given. It was a back and forth conversation involving about 15 or 20 people, covering a whole range of topics from Brexit to the United Nations-----

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Donald Trump.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----Russia and many other things. There was a conversation about social media and fake news and it developed from there. I said a lot of positive things about the media internationally and in Ireland-----

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About Donald Trump.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----in particular I acknowledged the role of investigative journalism in bringing about social change. I acknowledged the example of that in the #MeToo movement and the exposure of Harvey Weinstein, and we talked about the role of personal stories as evidenced in the media and how important that was in our last two referendum campaigns on abortion and marriage equality.

I also said that I thought I got a fair hearing from the media in general, and I do, and I said that because of the proliferation of media outlets and journalists, that journalists were under a lot of pressure to produce stories, much more so than would have been the case in the past when there were fewer journalists and news programmes, but of course none of that was reported.

My only reference to RTÉ was in response to somebody challenging me when I said that investigative journalism was not always true and the only reference I made to RTÉ "Prime Time Investigates" was specifically on the issue of the "Mission to Prey", programme when false allegations against a priest fathering a child in Africa were broadcast and should not have been broadcast. Obviously that has been dealt with since.

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That is historical. It is ancient. People have been fired over that.

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That account of events directly contradicts what those who were at the event are reported to have said. The report reflects commentary by the Taoiseach in which he accuses the media of trivialising matters, and chasing tittle-tattle rather than being concerned with substantive issues. A direct attack on investigative journalism, on RTÉ investigative journalism in particular, is very clear in the recording. The problem is that the Taoiseach is saying one thing, while those who were in attendance say another. Will he tell us how we can fully and finally clarify these matters? The Taoiseach says he is concerned about the health of the media in Ireland. In that context, I would have thought the issue of media ownership would have been the obvious, stand-out issue, but the Taoiseach chose not to address it.

What other issues were discussed? Did the Taoiseach comment on other sections on Irish society outside of the media?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I was there so I am in a position to tell the Deputy what transpired.

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It differs from the accounts of others.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy McDonald is free to make up and imagine anything she likes but I can say what transpired because I was there. The only reference to RTÉ was in relation to the "Mission to Prey" programme, and a lot of people around the table were not aware of it. Perhaps some of them believed that investigative reporting was always true so I gave an example of a case where it was not, and where a story became more important than the truth. That happens and we should not be afraid to say it. In private, we talk about stories that were sensationalised and, as politicians, we should not be afraid to say that.

The issue of media ownership did not come up. Had it done so, I would have been happy to discuss it and I have discussed it in this House on previous occasions.

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