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Dáil
‹ Leaders' Questions

CervicalCheck expenses cutoff

Summary

Deputy Doherty raises the CervicalCheck scandal and the Government’s alleged 11 May cutoff for expense claims by victims and families. The Tánaiste says there is no definitive cutoff date and insists the State is trying to support affected families through liaison officers and case-by-case assistance.

Ba mhaith liom cur leis na focail a dúirt an Ceann Comhairle ó thaobh an tsamhraidh agus tá súil agam go mbeidh achan duine ar ais anseo í Mí Mheán Fómhair i bharr na sláinte agus fosta gabhann Sinn Féin ár mbuíochas leis an fhoireann anseo i dTeach Laighean, go háirithe le cúpla seachtain anuas agus muid ag suí go mall.

I want to raise the issue of the CervicalCheck scandal and in particular the cut-off point imposed by the Government of 11 May in respect of the payments of expenses that can be claimed by victims of this scandal and their families. This was confirmed by the Taoiseach during Leaders' Questions yesterday when he said it is not possible to claim for retrospective expenses. That is absolutely unacceptable. The Tánaiste and his colleagues in government are well aware that the impact of the CervicalCheck scandal stretches much further back in time than the 11 May cut-off point imposed. The imposition of a cut-off date means that no account is being taken of the costs incurred by those at the centre of this scandal. They have been incurring costs for many, many years. Victims and their families, who incurred considerable medical and other expenses, including loss of earnings, prior to 11 May might have to wait for a final settlement in order to be compensated for these costs. That means that victims and their families are forced down the legal route, potentially into the courts, in order to recoup expenses incurred. Any fair minded person will say that is simply unacceptable. It represents shocking treatment by this State of people it has already failed. It is not right and the cut-off point should be scrapped.

Mr. Stephen Teap said yesterday that the cut-off date is unacceptable to the 18 bereaved families still paying off expenses, as well as coming to terms with their battles with cancer. Other victims are in a similar situation. I know the Tánaiste has previously met Mr. Teap and that he has acknowledged previously that it was the contribution of that man, in seeking support, that influenced the way in which the package was shaped and support was provided for individuals and their families. The Tánaiste also told the Dáil on 17 May that no victim should be treated in a way that adds any further to the trauma that he or she has witnessed. I understand that a meeting of the steering committee is taking place today. That committee is comprised of officials from the Department of Health and the HSE, and has been established to oversee a range of concerns that have arisen as a result of this scandal. It strikes me that it might be appropriate to deal with this major issue at the meeting of the steering committee.

Will the Tánaiste agree that the arbitrary cut-off date of 11 May is cold, clinical, callous and unacceptable? Will he commit to ensuring that it is scrapped and that the families can be adequately compensated for the expenses they have incurred without having to go through the legal process.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue, because he has given me an opportunity to provide some necessary clarity. I listened to Mr. Stephen Teap on the radio this morning and I understand the points he has made. I also spoke to the Department of Health this morning on this issue. There is no definitive cut-off date here. The scandal effectively broke on 11 May. The Government response and services offered can be dated from then. Since then, each victim of this scandal has a dedicated liaison person who is talking to him or her. There have been many meetings between the liaison people and the families and victims affected by this. We are now trying to establish the detail of the kind of costs incurred pre-11 May so that the Government can respond appropriately. The truth is that many people and many families have different stories to tell here. Some have detailed records in terms of costs incurred and some do not have any records at all. However, they all have stories that must be listened to. We are acting through the Department of Health and the HSE. A political decision will have to be made as to how we respond to pre-11 May costs incurred by families who are victims of the cervical checks scandal, and how that is appropriately addressed. Do we acknowledge the costs via an ex gratia payment? Do we meet only those costs that are linked to paper work? We have to decide how to act. We are in the process of deciding on that currently. One of the discussions I expect to happen at the steering group today is on that very particular issue. I know that Mr. Teap will make a very strong case because he is a very strong individual and he is correct to make such a case because he represents many families who are relying on him. I assure the Deputy that the Government and the Department want to respond in a way that is generous and appropriate and which does not add to the trauma that people already have had to live through, particularly since 11 May. There is no strict arbitrary cut-off point. We are making an effort to try to understand the complexity of the situation. We are talking to all victims and getting an understanding of the kinds of costs incurred and are considering how the State can reflect that in the supports it will put in place, which will be tailor-made for individual families and victims.

Comment on this

The date of 11 May is arbitrary. The case of Ms Vicky Phelan came into the public domain on 25 April. That date has been plucked out of the air. Yesterday the Taoiseach responded to Mary Lou McDonald and told us that 11 May is the date from which claims can be submitted. Claims before that, we were told, cannot be dealt with because they are retrospective. They would have to be dealt with through the court process or the mediation process. We are now getting a different message. Stephen Teap said this morning that he was shocked when he heard what the Taoiseach said. He has made his claim, I understand, for the expenses incurred on behalf of his wife and his family. Victims want to have certainty. The Tánaiste said he wanted to be generous and appropriate, but a cold, clinical and callous approach is being taken here.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

It is not. The Deputy should not paint this as something it is not.

Comment on this

It is. I am telling the Tánaiste what I believe. I am also saying that, as Stephen Teap said, it is unacceptable to the 18 bereaved families. We need certainty here. Those families who have incurred costs and who have already been failed by the State, need a clear statement that the date of 11 May no longer applies. They need to be told that they can submit their claims for expenses and that those expenses will be paid by the State. A different message was given to the victims of this scandal by the Taoiseach.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I am trying to give the Deputy an update on the position but more importantly, I am trying to give a clear message to those outside of this House who are listening closely because they and their families have been affected by the CervicalCheck scandal.

There is nothing cold or callous about the Government's approach. We are looking to try to support families and individuals in a generous and supportive way. That is why we have put case officers in place to try to provide the supports that are needed in a personal way, on the basis of individual cases. I have of course heard Stephen's story. It is a very tragic one for him and for his family and there are many others like that. However, we have to ensure that we propose a way of responding to expenses that were incurred prior to May of this year in a way that can apply to everybody, not just to those who have the paperwork necessary to make a claim and so on. What is needed here is a detailed discussion between the HSE, the Department of Health and Stephen Teap and others who represent the families involved on the steering group, in order that we can put an appropriate support package in place to deal with expenses that have incurred both in recent months and before that as well.

Comment on this