On a number of occasions since late 2017 I have raised the disgraceful treatment consistently meted out to hospices, disability organisations and mental health services by the Government, particularly its failure to restore the pay of their employees in line with that of other health service employees. The Minister for Health and the Government have been dishonest on the issue from the outset. Hospices and disability organisations are being treated as if they are second class, while their employees are being treated like second-class citizens. They implemented the FEMPI legislation in 2010 and 2013 and were deliberately excluded by the Government from pay restoration under the public service agreements of the past two years. The Government has stalled on the issue. We all know that these organisations depend significantly on voluntary donations and fundraising in the community. On average, they receive about 75% of their total annual revenue to meet operating costs from the Government and must fund the rest themselves. In particular, they have to raise almost all of their own capital. They have received no increase in funding in recent years to pay increments and meet inflation in non-pay costs. Since the early 2000s, the demand for their services has almost doubled. Hospices, in particular, are efficient and effective, have a significant impact and won the trust of the public, yet they are being treated in a very cynical, dishonest and shabby manner by the Government. It is difficult to comprehend why they were ever left out of pay restoration provided for in the Estimates and allocations, but a cynical decision was taken somewhere to brazen it out. The goalposts and the story keep changing, but, essentially, these organisations have been hung out to dry. I raised the matter with the Taoiseach in October and November 2017 and January this year, but he keeps shifting the goalposts. Fundamentally, this is not an industrial relations issue but a funding issue. It is an issue of basic fairness. Hospices and disability organisations have been short-changed. They have warned us that they will simply have to cut services if pay restoration does not happen in line with that for other health service employees. They face a funding crisis. Will the Taoiseach confirm that funding has been allocated in the Estimates for 2019 to facilitate pay restoration for the employees of hospices, disability organisations and those covered by section 39? When will the Government do the right thing in treating the employees of these organisations in a fair and just manner?

I thank the Deputy and welcome him back. I hope he had a nice summer.

I want, of course, to start by joining him in acknowledging the really valuable and important work that is done in section 39 organisations, whether it is hospices around the country, like St. Francis Hospice, which is very near to where I live, whether it is disability organisations around the country or whether it is people involved in social care. I think everyone in this House will understand and respect the important work that is carried out by these organisations and their staff.

As has been explained in the past, section 39 organisations are not part of the public sector and the staff in them are not public servants. As the Deputy pointed out, on average these organisations get 75% of their funding from the State but, as we all know, "on average" does not mean "in all cases". In some cases the funding from the Government may be as little as €10,000 or €11,000, whereas in some cases almost all of the funding may come from the public purse, and it is different in different circumstances. In almost all cases these organisations have had budget increases in recent years. There has not been a budget freeze for section 39 organisations in recent years. In fact, the money paid to section 39 organisations, taken in aggregate, or on average, as the Deputy may use the term, has increased every year in the last couple of years.

Analysis, which is not yet complete, has been done by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It shows that the situation is very different across these different bodies. In some cases they have paid increases and made pay restoration, for example, in some hospices, whereas in others they have not. In some places they are entirely compliant with public sector pay policy and mirror almost exactly public sector pay policy and pay rates. In others they do not, and in some cases they use that flexibility to pay more or pay less, as they deem appropriate for the activities in their area.

We know from the analysis so far that some can afford to pay and some cannot. The fact there is such a difference across all of these different bodies means it is a complicated problem to solve, but it is something we want to solve. It is a matter that is now being considered by the Workplace Relations Commission. The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, recently met SIPTU, one of the main unions involved, and the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, has met the head of ICTU to discuss this. We want to resolve it. We want to include in the Estimates for 2019 some moneys to resolve this situation but that requires coming to an agreement, and we have not yet come to an agreement on how that can be done.

It gives me no pleasure to say the Taoiseach's answer reeks of dishonesty. Let us cut the verbiage, the waffle and all the talk on the average and all the rest of it. I met the five hospices yesterday. The bottom line is the Government has not given them the money to restore pay. The reason there was strike notice this week is that one hospice did not pay. There has been no retrospection of pay. The Minister of State with responsibility for disability, Deputy Finian McGrath, should be up in arms in regard to the disability arguments. I have met St. Joseph's Foundation, Charleville. It is in debt, in crisis. Let us cut all the nonsense and the waffle. When the cuts happened, the HSE went down to the CEO of each of these organisations and said: "Cut. If you do not, we will cut your money". They are the only people in the health service who were excluded, deliberately and cynically, from the pay restoration agreement. There is no rationale for it.

I got a similar reply previously. The Taoiseach mentions St. Francis Hospice in every reply I get. That is fine, but the reality is the Taoiseach said the same thing over 12 months ago. He has been seeking information for about 15 months. The people love the hospices of this country. They will do anything for them. It is about time the Government did more than just sip a cup of coffee or tea with them and actually gave them what they are entitled to, the same as the nurses and all the other health alliance professionals working in other organisations in the health service. He and I know they should not even be section 39 organisations. They should be fully integrated into our health service. We should take lessons from them because they are the most trusted, well received and popular services in our health service across the country.

What the Deputy may call waffle and nonsense, other people would call facts. The fact is they are section 39 organisations. They are section 39 organisations in the Health Act, an Act the Deputy brought into this House. They are not publicly owned bodies. These are private organisations that receive grant funding from the Government to provide a particular public service. That is the way it works. These bodies receive-----

The Labour Court has adjudicated, as the Taoiseach knows. It has adjudicated that there is a 30-year link.

Can the Taoiseach be allowed to respond without interruption?

The Labour Court's determinations apply to the employers. In this case the employer is not the State. The way these organisations work is that they receive grant aid from the Government. They also have their own income streams. They have a decision to make as to how they should spend the money they are given. Some organisations have provided for pay restoration for staff, while others have not. Some can afford to do so and some cannot. Some receive almost all of their funding from the State, while some do not. This is not a straightforward issue, but it is one we want to resolve. We want to include some funding in the Estimates for 2019 to provide for pay restoration for staff in these organisations. However, we cannot calculate that figure until we get to the bottom of what is involved. We need all of the data from the organisations to get there and we will then need agreement with the unions to achieve it.