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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Housing policy and Sinn Féin criticism

Summary

A long exchange follows on the housing and homelessness protest, with Mary Lou McDonald and others accusing the Government of inaction and favouring landlords. The Taoiseach defends a mixed delivery approach, rejects Sinn Féin's credibility on housing, and argues that protests and declarations do not build homes.

This afternoon, thousands of people will gather outside these gates to take a stand against the housing and homelessness crisis. This is no stunt. These are people who have studied and who live the facts. These are people taking a stand against the fact that the policies of the Government have left almost 10,000 people homeless. They are raising their voices and recording their deep outrage that almost 4,000 of those are children in emergency accommodation. How is that for a fact? These are people taking a stand against rents that are out of control and continuing to rise. They are expressing their anger that owning a home is now beyond the reach of ordinary working people, particularly younger people. These people, having studied and lived the facts, are telling the Taoiseach and the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government that enough is enough. They are demanding meaningful action now.

Later today, we will debate a cross-party motion which calls on the Government to officially declare the housing crisis an emergency. The Taoiseach should do that. He should accept that we face an emergency and then act accordingly. Our motion calls for a dramatic increase in the number of social and affordable homes. This must happen. Next week's budget must mark a step change in tackling the housing emergency. The Taoiseach and his partners in Fianna Fáil need to get their heads around that and understand that more of the same simply will not cut it. The Government must double capital investment in housing and social housing. That is what we in Sinn Féin propose and what tonight's motion calls for. It is also what those outside the gates today will demand.

We need delivery of 10,000 real social houses next year, as recommended by the Committee on Housing and Homelessness. We need affordable housing. The Government has not delivered one affordable home in three years and has no affordable housing targets for next year. That is some fact. We propose the delivery of 4,500 affordable homes. We must call a halt to the rental crisis. We propose the introduction of a temporary tax relief for renters and a three-year emergency rent freeze.

These are just some of the measures required on budget day and the Government can deliver them. Alternatively, it can continue to live in its fool's paradise. The Government and Fianna Fáil can fool themselves, but they will not fool the people who are gathering at the gates. I ask the Taoiseach, as Head of Government, to officially declare a housing and homeless emergency and support the joint party motion which will come before the House today.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I have acknowledged before that the country faces a housing crisis. I acknowledged many months ago that this is an emergency and because it is an emergency, we have taken emergency actions. Some €60 million is being spent this year on providing emergency accommodation for people who need it, so that they have a roof over their heads. Emergency powers have been brought in to fast-track planning. This is now working, with big developments getting through planning much more quickly. There are measures to control the rising cost of rents, which had not been done for decades. I am not sure what the Deputy means by declaring an emergency. Does she mean suspending the Constitution? Does she mean ending civil liberties?

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The Government should double capital investment.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

A declaration of something does not build any houses or change any policies. It does not provide any resources. In many ways, that sums up the Sinn Féin policy on housing.

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It just sums up-----

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is to make declarations and speeches, and to play politics-----

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----but not to put forward solutions that are workable or, in many cases, affordable.

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The Taoiseach must be allowed to speak.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Sinn Féin has no credibility on housing. Let us not forget that, according to the Simon Community, 200,000 people are homeless in Northern Ireland. I appreciate there are different ways of counting homelessness but 200,000 is a lot of people. We see Sinn Féin councillors all over the country voting down social and affordable housing proposals, including on Dublin City Council and South Dublin County Council.

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That is not true.

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That is very true.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In Northern Ireland, where there is a housing crisis, Sinn Féin walked out of office over a renewable heat initiative and will not go back in.

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We have to appoint Tom Feely as building tsar.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In councils all around the country, Sinn Féin votes down social and affordable housing-----

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----because the truth is that Sinn Féin does not want to solve this problem but wants it to get worse because it believes it can benefit from it politically.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

That is a real shame.

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I will tell the Taoiseach what we should do. Let us go out to the people at the gate in an hour's time.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Let us test whose credibility is in question on the issue of housing and homelessness. It is not mine.

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Eoghan Murphy Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government Fine Gael

What has Deputy McDonald done?

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It is the credibility of the Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin and Fianna Fáil as a party.

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We can test everything during elections.

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People know who the authors of this catastrophe are and they know it is not Sinn Féin. Far from acting as if we are in an emergency, the Taoiseach has been timid and a lackey to private landlords. He has sat on the sidelines in the vain hope that the market will sort it all out, even though all of the evidence tells him that the market is not sorting this out, that the State has to do the heavy lifting and that any Government worthy of the name needs to intervene in an emergency fashion. That means doubling capital investment, being bold, having ambition and ditching the Government's pathetic excuse for dealing with rent control and introducing a rent freeze. It means ensuring that the Government stops the despicable practice of landlords turfing families out to get vacant possession on properties that the State assisted these people to buy. It must stop that.

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The Deputy's time is up.

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The Taoiseach knows which amendment I am referring to. That is what the Government needs to do. If he is prepared to do that, he should say so and, if not, he should make that clear. Let us then go out to the gate and we will test who has the credibility problem.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As is so evident, Sinn Féin's only interest when it comes to housing-----

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Why not go out to the gate?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----is to exploit this issue for political gain and try to turn it into a party political issue. That is what it is seeking to do today in the Chamber and no doubt that is what it will seek to do outside the House today. We have heard the charge again that the Government or Fine Gael has some ideological objection to social housing-----

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When it suits the private landlords.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and that we believe the market provides all the solutions. That is a political charge. I expect to hear political charges from Sinn Féin but I am disappointed to hear it from others. That charge is absolute bunkum. This is a housing crisis and an emergency. In a crisis or an emergency, one tries to provide new homes as quickly as possible by any mechanism one can find.

That could be building houses, buying them, leasing them or renovating them. It could be done through local authorities-----

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What about social housing?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----approved housing bodies or through private developers. It can be social, affordable, cost rental or for purchase. The real ideologues are the people who think there is only one way to provide housing and only one mechanism that is legitimate.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

This is a crisis. This is an emergency, and therefore we will try to provide new homes and apartments throughout the country by any and all mechanisms possible, as quickly as possible. That is our policy and that is why we will build 20,000 new homes and apartments this year in Ireland, more than in any other year this decade.

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I fully agree with Deputy McDonald that the crowds outside the gate today are serious in supporting the motion that will be brought before the House in the afternoon, which has support across many parties but not all parties in this House because there is an ideological difference between them. What the protest does have is the support of a coalition of forces from all of the NGOs dealing with housing, all of the trade unions, all of the smaller political parties, all of the housing associations and many academics and other bodies. It would be worth the Taoiseach's while listening to that message.

Fifty years ago this month the civil rights movement in Derry took to the streets. It brought out caravans and barricades and blocked the streets in protest over the right to housing and it got the right to housing. Those on the Taoiseach's side of the House who say protests do not build houses are wrong. They do, because if people keep protesting and keep making sure that people power is in the face of the ruling elite, then it will listen. We are going to make sure this movement is heard. I refer to the Take Back the City movement, the Homeless and Housing Coalition and others. We will make sure the Taoiseach listens and that protests will build houses.

A week ago the Taoiseach seemed unable to finish a statement in response to my colleague, Deputy Barry. In the exchange the Taoiseach said he believed this side of the House divided people and created walls between those who pay for everything and who do not qualify for anything, and those who, but he could not finish the sentence. He got a bit flustered and he sat down. That was good spin and good drama training that made him sit down. I will tell him what he was going to say. It was those who pay for nothing and expect everything for free. He was referring to people who live in social housing. I grew up in a social housing estate, as I am sure many other Deputies did. We paid our rent. We paid a differential rent according to the income that came into the house. Nobody expects a home for free. We grew up in an area where people worked as bus drivers, post office workers, nurses, cleaners, soldiers, the whole nine yards of society. It was not a ghetto. We are not about creating ghettoes.

I wish to ask the Taoiseach a serious question. I also want to ask it of Deputy Micheál Martin. Will they instruct the Deputies in their parties who are landlords either to support the motion this afternoon or to abstain? There are at least 30 Deputies who are landlords and who benefit in no small measure from the subsidies that have grown to a shocking €700 million this year, almost €1 billion, and probably rising. Those who watch these things are forecasting that the subsidies to landlords will reach €1 billion next year. All those Deputies in this House who are landlords, who therefore have a vested interest, and who do not support the motion should abstain. Otherwise, there is a conflict of interests that is immoral and does not fit with any pretence that they give a damn about the homelessness crisis in this city.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Protest is part of democracy. Provided the protest is lawful and peaceful then it is welcome. I have no objection to anyone taking part in protests to highlight important issues that affect society, because they highlight issues and spur us on to do more to deal with them. That is my view on that. Any protest that is peaceful and lawful should be welcomed in a democracy, and I do.

What the Deputy tried to do was a classic fallacy. If I did it, no doubt people would call it spin, but it is not spin. It is a fallacy. It is an attempt to put words in other people's mouths, to finish their sentences or to do what they often do, namely, to tell us what we think, as if they knew. It is just classic fallacy.

As Deputy Bríd Smith rightly pointed out, what I was describing was her politics, which is to divide people. We do not want to do that. We want to create communities. We want integrated housing and we want housing for everyone in society. People who are on housing lists need social housing and people who want to buy their own homes should be able to do so. The average person buying his or her own home in Ireland is in his or her mid-30s, which should not be the case. People should be in their 20s, as was the case in the past. I lead a Government that believes in home ownership and we want to make sure that more and more people can buy their own homes, and in particular that people in their 20s can afford to do so again. That is the reason we are doing what we are doing.

As I said earlier, we have put in place the biggest social housing programme in decades. More than 100,000 social houses are to be provided over the next ten years. This year alone we will increase the social housing stock by 8,000. People will move into those homes this year with their families. We are building more homes for people to purchase. A total of 20,000 new houses and apartments will be built in Ireland this year, up from 15,000 in 2017 and 10,000 in 2016. We will build more new houses and apartments in Ireland this year than any year in the past ten years, and we intend to build even more thereafter. The solution is to build homes of all types because everyone in society deserves to have a roof over their head, and that is what we want to achieve.

The ideologues and the people who are wedded to particular political philosophies are not us. We are the ones who want to build new homes as quickly as possible, and we will do so by any mechanism we can find.

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It is a long time since I heard the phrase classic fallacy. It is not often used. If I am guilty of a classic fallacy then I must be very rare because the phrase is not used very often. I wish to respond to the notion that we are attempting to divide. The Deputy tripped up in his discussion with Deputy Barry last week, and in the past. Deputy Boyd Barrett told me that in an exchange with him the Taoiseach clearly said that people cannot expect housing for free. I do not believe Fine Gael and the ruling elite understand what social housing is. It is about the State providing a safe, affordable roof over the heads of the population. That is not happening. I am constantly being texted and contacted by people who are about to be evicted from private rented accommodation. Part of this afternoon's motion is that there should be no evictions into homelessness. If the Taoiseach does not support that, then he is an ideologue. In fact, I know he is an ideologue but he will prove it this afternoon when he refuses to support the motion.

Will the Taoiseach please address my question? Will he instruct his Deputies who are landlords and who have a conflict of interest because of the massive subsidies being paid in the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, the housing assistance payment, HAP, and other leasing arrangements to the landlord class in this country not to vote in this motion?

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They are not getting HAP.

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They are compromising themselves, the Fine Gael Party and the Fianna Fáil Party when they do so.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I do not believe the Deputy is an ideologue, I believe she is a populist. Populists present easy answers to complex problems. They replace emotion with reason and they try to demonise and misrepresent their opponents. What Deputy Bríd Smith is trying to do here is a classic example of that.

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It is a classic ideologue fallacy.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I lead a Government that contains at least two Cabinet members who grew up in a council home and they are proud to have done so. I also lead a Government that perhaps includes people who are landlords. We should bear in mind that landlords who receive rent supplement and HAP are not receiving subsidies. They are receiving payments that provide housing for people who need it, and until such a time as we can build enough social housing to replace that, it will be necessary.

There is a limit to the number of houses that can be built in any one year. We will increase the social housing stock this year by 8,000, but there will still be tens of thousands of people who will need to be accommodated in the meantime. That is why we use mechanisms such as rent supplement and HAP. It is not a subsidy, it is paying the rent for people who cannot afford to pay the rent themselves, and that is a good thing.

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