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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí (Atógáil) - Leaders' Questions (Resumed)

Traveller marginalisation and inclusion

Summary

Deputy Howlin raised shocking unemployment and education statistics for Travellers and argued that criticism of hate speech must be matched by tackling marginalisation through education, training and employment. The Tánaiste pointed to Traveller recognition, the inclusion strategy and accommodation funding, while noting persistent delivery failures and underspend.

Many of us across the House, rightly, were up in arms about the crass remarks made about Travellers by one of the recent candidates in the presidential election, but it is not enough for us to decry negative stereotyping and hate speech. We have to take seriously the issue of Traveller margninalisation. The national Traveller and Roma inclusion strategy report states the rate of unemployment among Travellers is 80%, which affects a staggering four out of five. Only one in eight Travellers, or just 12%, completes secondary education. By any yardstick, they are shocking statistics. If they described a minority group in another jurisdiction, we would, rightly, be concerned and voice our views about it, but we continue to allow that situation to prevail. I am not persuaded by any argument to the effect that more is paid in social welfare to Travellers than to others or that because they have large families, there is a disincentive to work. Other large families enter paid employment and welfare payments are designed to support families in work.

There are other issues behind the statistics, including discrimination. Perhaps there is also the lack of a clear vision for the role of Travellers in the economy and society. Across the board, not just for Travellers, there is a decline in work opportunities for people without formal qualifications or skills, yet formal education does not work for everybody. We need robust alternatives such as apprenticeships for those who drop out of school at second level. Secondary school education is mandatory up to the age of 16 years or at least until one attempt is made to sit the junior certificate examinations. Should that opt-out be removed and an age limit applied in order that everybody would be required to stay in education until he or she is 16 years old? Will the Government consider whether specific apprenticeship schemes for young Travellers should be instituted, resourced and put in place across the country? Will it consider other forms of training and skill development for Travellers and impose the same mandatory attendance requirement based on age as that applied at second level? However, all of the training in the world will not make a difference if there are no jobs and businesses open, available and willing to employ Travellers. Will the Tánaiste outline the Government's vision for the role of Travellers in our society? There has been much hoopla about ethnicity in the past year. It is a very important milestone, but it has to have real meaning. What specific robust measures will be taken to change the disastrous and unacceptable statistics for employment and education among Travellers?

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy for asking this question. It is a sensitive but very important issue on which the House needs to continue to provide leadership. People will remember the former Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, making a statement in March 2017 in announcing the recognition of Travellers as an ethnic group in Ireland. Since that statement, the Government has published the national Traveller and Roma inclusion strategy 2017 to 2021. The strategy contains 149 actions grouped under ten themes, including cultural identity, education, health, anti-discrimination and equality. A celebration event to mark the first anniversary of the formal recognition of Traveller ethnicity by the Taoiseach in Dáil Éireann took place in the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham in March this year. The event was targeted primarily at members of the Traveller community and the relevant NGOs, State agencies and Departments that work on Traveller issues. However, it was fully inclusive and open to any member of the public who wished to attend.

We are looking to build on our achievements in changing the conversation between the Traveller community and the settled community, one that did not have enough trust and, in some cases, still does not. If we are honest, there is an underlying prejudice, driven by fear, among many in the settled community. The only way we can address it over time is through responsible politics that recognises that, as a minority ethnic group in Ireland, Travellers have been marginalised for many years. As a result, their educational, housing and healthcare needs have not been met, resulting in a build-up of mistrust and tension between the two communities. There are lots of anecdotal examples. Settled communities are fearful of integration and facilitating housing solutions. As a result, local authorities have been unable to deliver the supports needed. However, we cannot allow that fear and prejudice to dominate how the issue is dealt through policy development and investment - quite the opposite, in fact. This Government wants to be more generous, reach out more comprehensively, invest more and insist at both national and local level on the resources made available actually being spent in ways that will achieve real outcomes. We are more than open to considering new suggestions, including apprenticeships and getting a buy-in among employers or other elements of society that could prove helpful in what must be a transition over time. We must change the narrative and relationship between Travellers and communities that have hang-ups and fears about them.

I pay tribute to the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, in dealing with this issue. He has shown remarkable leadership and put a huge amount of time into dealing with a hugely important issue that is challenging from a policy perspective. I know that he will continue to give leadership in that regard.

Comment on this

The Ceann Comhairle might forgive me for thanking him for inviting Travellers and representative groups to the Oireachtas last night. It was a very worthwhile initiative that should be mentioned.

I agree with the Tánaiste. We need to have an open conversation, not on the margins but in the centre. The statistics are truly shocking. They are not just statistics, they reflect the reality for people. The way to change them is through education, training and, ultimately, employment. As a community and society, we have failed to do this. Let us not simply voice our horror at some of the comments made about people on the margins. Let us actually find a solution to ensure the concept of true citizenship for all citizens can be vindicated in this republic. That would be a vindication of all the rhetoric about appreciating ethnicity and so on. If we believe what we are saying, let us take real initiatives in that regard.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

To make the Deputy's point, on which I agree with him, there is no lack of effort on the Government's part, but the outcomes are not changing. For example, in the latest budget we allocated €15 million for Traveller-specific accommodation, a 25% increase on the figure for last year. Looking at the recent history of this issue, it is no secret that the delivery of Traveller accommodation has been challenging, to put it mildly. Budget allocations have simply not been spent. In the ten years between 2008 and 2017 the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government recouped in excess of €105 million to local authorities from a capital budget of €156 million. That represents a collective drawdown of 67% of capital funding by local authorities. In other words, money that has been made available cannot be spent because of the politics and social challenges surrounding the issue. We need to work with Traveller representative bodies and the Traveller community to provide reassurance.

We also need to ensure there is leadership at local government level, as well as in national policy, to be able to change the narrative that, unfortunately, has resulted in so many in the travelling community being desperately disadvantaged through the non-delivery of many of the essential services to which they should be entitled.

Comment on this