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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Child poverty and CAMHS waiting lists

Summary

Pearse Doherty raised homelessness, child poverty and long waits for CAMHS, speech and language therapy and other child services. The Taoiseach said child poverty was falling overall, acknowledged serious regional waiting-time differences, defended increased funding and staffing, and said he would examine the variations further.

In recent weeks we have heard accounts of homeless families and their children walking the streets of this city at night because they have nowhere to go. Almost 4,000 children will sleep in emergency accommodation tonight. The plight of parents and children in poverty is shockingly illustrated in the picture in today's edition of The Irish Times, which shows young mothers and their children queuing for nappies and baby formula outside the Capuchin Day Centre for Homeless People in Dublin. These are examples of how the Government is failing in its responsibility to protect some of the most vulnerable citizens in society, namely, our young people and children.

During Leaders' Questions last Thursday, I raised the scandalous waiting lists facing children and families who try to access the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS. Barnardos released its winter waiting list report, which illustrates the scale of the problem in the health service in the context of children awaiting care, this morning. The report states that 37,000 children are waiting for health assessments, be they mental health, disability or speech and language assessments. Some 78% of children with disabilities or suspected disabilities are overdue assessments of need to identify their health requirements. That is scandalous. The report also highlights an issue I raised last week, namely, the fact that thousands of children are waiting for mental health assessments to identify their needs. Many of them have been waiting over a year to be assessed. That is another unbelievable figure. However, this is not about numbers but about young lives, real people, families who are at their wits' end and children who are being put at risk. The reason for this, as the Minister for Justice and Equality accepted last week in the context of CAMHS, is that there is chronic understaffing within the system. Approximately half of the positions in CAMHS teams have been vacant for some time, yet when we raise the crisis regarding recruitment and retention that is in full swing - including the issue raised last Wednesday in respect of psychiatric nurses - the Taoiseach dismisses our concerns. What is needed is an immediate response, particularly in areas where the problems are worst. By filling the vacancies and improving the conditions, we can begin to improve services and attract the staff required to ensure there are proper services. We cannot allow a situation to persist whereby a child or young person who needs care must face an extended waiting period before obtaining access to the healthcare he or she needs.

During that time their healthcare and, in some cases, their lives are at risk. We need to see dedicated action to attract new staff, to keep the excellent staff we have within our system and to reduce waiting times. Promises were made last year that the staffing gaps in the CAMHS would be addressed. Those promises have come and gone. I ask the Taoiseach to recommit to ensuring that it happens this time. Will he acknowledge that under his Government, the State is failing these 37,000 children?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Deputy Doherty referred to child poverty. Child poverty is a scourge on our society, but the Deputy did not mention that child poverty in Ireland is falling and has been falling for several years now. The Deputy does not need to believe me on that, he can look at the statistics from the Central Statistics Office and the survey of income and living conditions. It rose dramatically during the recession but has been falling for several years. This is because of increased employment, and 97% of people in employment and their families avoid poverty. It is also because of the fact that incomes are rising again and because we have made real improvements in social welfare from the family income supplement-----

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The Government does not care about lifting 100,000 children out of poverty.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----to improvements for lone parents and increases in the child dependent allowance, including further improvements that will kick in during March, presuming that this House supports the social welfare legislation. Levels of child poverty remain far too high and there is more to be done, including further increasing employment, focusing on households where there is low work intensity, improving people's incomes and continuing to reform and improve our welfare system

With regard to CAMHS, the Deputy will know that under our mental health services as of September 2018 there are some 10,000 staff. In the past six years 2,000 posts have been approved, of which 1,500 have now been filled. The budget next year for mental health will be €1 billion, which is the biggest budget for mental health in the history of the State. We have difficulties in recruiting and retaining staff. All countries in the world have difficulties recruiting and retaining staff currently because there is a shortage of these people. It is not the case that there are huge numbers of unemployed qualified staff looking for jobs here or in any country. There is a huge shortage of people with these skills and it is a problem for our next door neighbour, for almost every country in Europe and for every western country. We are managing to add to the staff, with 1,500 extra staff in six years, as I said, and with 114 assistant psychologists and 20 psychologists being hired recently. This will help us to focus on especially complex cases. The Deputy will also be aware of the expansion of the Jigsaw services.

It is noteworthy from the Barnardos report, which is worth studying, that currently there are 2,621 children on the waiting list for CAMHS, waiting to see a mental health professional. For speech and language services, over half of the children are waiting fewer than 16 weeks. I do not know the figures for mental health but it is quite possible that more than half could be waiting fewer than 16 weeks, but it would still leave more than 1,000 who are waiting more than 16 weeks, which is not acceptable. The Barnardos report also shows that the figure for those who are waiting a very long time, for more than one year, has actually fallen by 15% in the last year, out of 327. The report also shows huge regional variation, which concerns me. Unless I am mistaken, the funding and resourcing is roughly the same across the different regions per capita-----

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I thank the Taoiseach.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and, for example, the figures for those who are waiting for that prolonged period are 0.6% in Dublin, 0.6% in Donegal and the Border area, but 29% in Cork and Kerry. I will certainly be looking for a report on a comparison between resources, staffing and outcomes. I do not believe that resourcing and staffing is so much lower in Cork and Kerry to have nearly 30% of people waiting over one year-----

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The Taoiseach's time is up.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----when in other parts of the State it is 0% or less than 1%.

Comment on this

It is clear that nearly eight years into Fine Gael's time in office it is failing these children spectacularly. The Government will miss its own targets when it talks about child poverty, and miss its own target of lifting 100,000 children out of poverty. That is a fact. There are 37,000 children being failed by the State.

I listened to him. This is just one example of many. One parent said their seven year old son has no coping skills and is crying out with sensory issues but here they are again on a waiting list. The child began his journey on a waiting list in 2015 and is still waiting for services he should have received years ago. That is the reality. When we deal with CAMHS it is not just in terms of sensory issues, it is in terms of mental health. The system is broken. The promises that were made in terms of resourcing the system have not been fulfilled. In community healthcare organisation area, CHO 4, the Tánaiste's constituency, there are over 700 children waiting for an initial assessment for mental health services, a third of whom have been waiting over a year. The Taoiseach says he does not have the figures on speech and language but I can tell him what the report outlines in that regard. Between March and August of this year there was an increase of 50% in those waiting over a year for initial assessment or to receive therapy. By any stretch of the imagination the Government is failing these children. On behalf of all those children and their parents, I ask the Taoiseach when he will step up to the mark and make sure there is a service fit for purpose after eight years of Fine Gael in government, such that we do not have children waiting month on month and year on year for basic services to help them reach the potential they should all have a chance to reach.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

On speech and language, I do have the figures. There are approximately 8,000 children waiting on initial assessment but most of those are waiting less than 16 weeks. There are 14,000 waiting on further therapy and again most of those are waiting between zero and 16 weeks, and 16 weeks or four months is the target waiting time. When we see those big figures it is important in terms of accuracy to divide them roughly by half because half the people are waiting less than 16 weeks and others are waiting more than that. No matter how good a system we have, we are always going to have people waiting two, three or four weeks.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The same thing would apply if they were going privately. That does not make it acceptable that there are any children waiting more than four months.

As is often the case, the Deputy presents the easy answer, the easy solution which probably does not work - more staff, more resources, more money. That is what we have been doing for three or four years. There is a record budget next year for mental health of €1 billion, 10,000 staff, with more than 2,000 added to that in the last six years.

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Half the CAMHS teams are empty.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The Deputy pointed to the Tánaiste's area and I see that here too. I see huge variations in the amount of time children who need these services are waiting from one region to the next.

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Thank you, Taoiseach.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I ask myself why that is the case and this is something I am going to look into because I do not believe there is such a dramatic variation in staffing and resources from one region to the next yet we can see enormous variations-----

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This has been going on for years.

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This is going on for years and the Taoiseach is only going to have a look at it now. There are 37,000 children and the Taoiseach is only starting to look at it now.

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Deputy, please.

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Did the Taoiseach's Deputies in Meath not tell him? It is far worse.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

For years we were in a financial and economic crisis when budgets were being cut back, services were being cut back and staff were being cut back.

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Thank you, Taoiseach.

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So it is okay for kids to die.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We have had the reverse for three or four years now, massive increases in resources-----

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I am sorry, Taoiseach, time is up.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----and increases in staff but we are not necessarily getting the results that patients, children and families deserve. This Sinn Féin solution of more of the same is not necessarily the answer and that is why we are trying to do things differently.

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Fill the CAMHS teams. Half of them are lying empty. The Taoiseach promised to do that here. He failed to do it.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

For example, when it comes to speech and language therapy, in 150 schools we are introducing a pilot programme in speech and language therapy because we need to do things differently.

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That is not the same.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

We have seen real success in reducing waiting lists for people waiting on operations. Most people waiting on an operation or a procedure now wait less than six months.

Comment on this

These lists are growing and the length of time people are on the lists is growing.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The reason that is happening is because we have done things differently through the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, system, so perhaps the Deputy is wrong. Perhaps it is not just more of the same. Perhaps we need to do things differently.

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Talk to the parents.

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Deputy Doherty, please. Could I bring it to everybody's attention, not for the first time, that we put a clock on the wall in order to assist people to comply with Standing Orders? The rules of the House lay down the amount of time that is available to ask and to answer questions. People routinely ignore them. When you routinely ignore the Orders of the House, you are being disorderly. The public at home is watching what is going on here. I urge Deputies please to behave. I call Deputy Howlin.

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