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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance services

Summary

Deputy Howlin challenged the Government’s handling of a Dáil motion opposing merger of Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance services with the National Ambulance Service. The Tánaiste said the issue required expert advice, transparency and accountability, and that collaboration and resourcing should be worked through rather than decided solely by politicians.

Last week, the Minister for Justice and Equality, currently seated beside the Tánaiste, assured me that the Government takes seriously the motions passed by the majority in this House. Where is the evidence of that? In all my time in this House, never has the majority voice in the Dáil been ignored so often as in this Dáil by this Government.

In June of this year, the Dáil passed a motion on Dublin Fire Brigade. We recognised that Dublin Fire Brigade provides crucial ambulance services. The Dáil rejected the suggestion of merging that ambulance service with the National Ambulance Service and of removing any element of Dublin Fire Brigade's fire-based emergency medical service system. The Dáil accepted a Labour Party amendment to that motion, calling on the Government to implement in full the report of the expert panel on pre-hospital emergency care services in Dublin which was published in December 2015. What has the Government's response been? As far as we can tell, management in Dublin City Council is not engaging in a process of discussion with Dublin Fire Brigade. We understand that simple, low-cost technical solutions are available to address specific concerns raised by the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA. This would permit a seamless communication link-up between Dublin Fire Brigade and the National Ambulance Service.

We have invested over the years to create a system of fire-based emergency response, including ambulances and highly-trained paramedics in our fire service. It is fairly unique for members of the fire service to be trained paramedics. It is a great addition. Other countries are moving in that direction. In the UK, there is a move towards integrating blue light services. They see that as best practice, to generate efficiencies and enhance public safety. We have been doing it in this city for over 100 years.

For some unknown reason, we have decided to move in the other direction from what is now regarded as best practice elsewhere, which is to model on what has been achieved in Dublin. There is a concern that our fire-based ambulance services are not being properly funded. This, of course, in and of itself is a risk to public safety. My simple question to the Tánaiste is will he now undertake to implement the resolutions passed by the Dáil Éireann to maintain and fully restore Dublin Fire Brigade's ambulance service for this city and county?

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I have some knowledge of this issue, having been previously in a Department that was involved with and connected to Dublin City Council. As the Deputy knows, this has been an ongoing discussion for quite some time, trying to ensure we have the best possible pre-hospital emergency response capacity in Dublin. Undoubtedly we have a very well trained and highly capable fire service in Dublin but we also have a very competent ambulance service linked to hospitals and the HSE.

With respect, I do not think it should be politicians who decide on what the best mix and collaboration between two excellent services should look like in future. We should leave it to the experts and the management teams of both to interact. Of course, we have to provide much of the funding to make sure the service is well funded and can do the job it needs to do but the actual technical elements of emergency response and using the resources we have in the Dublin fire service as well as the ambulance service should be left to the experts, with respect.

Comment on this

The Tánaiste knows full well that all State services are democratically accountable. It is under the Constitution that we vote the moneys for them and hold the services to account. We are accountable, in turn, to the people for this. That is how democracies work. We do not hive them off for others to make a decision on these matters. In this case, our common objective is what is best practice. We have debated this in Private Members' time and the House made a decision on it. Is it the Tánaiste's view this was a waste of time? Why would we have a debate if we have no control over it and our say does not count?

I understand a process headed by Kieran Mulvey is under way, but my information is it is going nowhere because of a lack of engagement by Dublin City Council. Will the Tánaiste at least give a commitment there will be open transparent analysis of the facts so the common objective we have of providing the best, safest and most efficient emergency services for the city and county will be maintained?

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

It is a very reasonable request that any decision made would be fully transparent and that the people who make decisions would be fully accountable. As the Deputy said, the way democracy works is we have to ensure we are accountable for the decisions made but we also need to rely on the expertise of those involved. Politicians are not, with respect, paramedics.

Comment on this

Ministers are decision makers.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

If it is the case that people are being stonewalled, or that people are not co-operating with the process that needs to come to a conclusion, that is a different issue. Obviously, the Government and the Minister will be interested in this and they need to be accountable to the House to make sure money is being spent appropriately, that the services are well resourced and that the collaboration that is needed in the future runs smoothly. The nature of that collaboration is one on which we need to take advice from the interested parties.

Comment on this
Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

That is the process that is under way.

Comment on this