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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Taxation and wealth fairness

Summary

Deputy Healy argued Ireland is a low-tax country that protects the wealthy and leaves ordinary workers carrying too much of the burden, calling for greater equity and possibly wealth taxation. The Tánaiste rejected the claim, said middle-income earners are pushed into higher tax bands at lower thresholds than elsewhere, and defended the budget’s balance of spending over tax cuts while insisting the wealthy should pay their fair share.

Ireland is the eighth richest country in the world but, according to the OECD, if we take all taxes into account revenue as a percentage of GDP in Ireland is the third lowest of OECD countries. We also know Ireland has the fifth lowest revenue to GDP ratio in the European Union, the figures being 35% for Ireland and 40% for the EU. Ireland is a low tax country. The real question is why it is a low tax country. Of course, the answer to this question is that the Government and previous Governments pursued a conscious and deliberate policy of protecting the massive wealth of the rich and powerful in our society and has allowed them not to pay their fair share of taxation. We know the top 10% of income recipients pay a smaller proportion of their income in all taxes than the bottom 10% of recipients. We know the top 10% of financial asset holders now have approximately €40 billion more than they had at peek boom levels in 2006 and they are not asked to pay a cent from this windfall. We also know the share of gross income going to the top 1% of earners increased from 34% in 2011 to 39% in 2016. We also know that more than half of the increase in total income over the past five years has gone to 10% of the highest earners.

The country has become unequal and this has been accelerated in the recent budget. We know the 300 wealthiest individuals, who have €100 billion, will not pay a cent of tax on this. We also know, because the Comptroller and Auditor General told us recently, that 83 high net worth individuals, with assets in excess of €50 million each, declare taxable income of less than the average industrial wage of €36,500. This is perfectly legal but absolutely shameful.

The country is profoundly unequal and it is a far cry from the vision of equality and fairness set out 100 years ago in the democratic programme of the First Dáil that met 100 yd. from here in the Mansion House in January 1919. Will the Government bring forward legislation to remedy the situation revealed by the Comptroller and Auditor General recently whereby 83 high net worth individuals, with in excess of €50 million in assets each, declare taxable incomes of less than the average industrial wage? At present, this is perfectly legal under legislation being presided over by the Government. Will the Government introduce a supplementary budget in January to reverse the inequity of the recent budget and make the rich and powerful pay their fair share in taxation?

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

The Deputy has raised many issues. I will pick up on a number of points. He seems to be suggesting we should be taxing on the basis of asset values rather than income.

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No, I am not.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

If that is what he is suggesting every farm in the country will be put out of business.

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I am not suggesting that.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

On the issue of whether Ireland is a high-tax or low-tax economy, if we ask a person on €35,000 year who is paying the higher rate of tax on some of their income, or close to it, because the threshold is just above this now, and if we compare Ireland to other countries, we ask people on middle incomes to pay the higher rate of tax on a much higher percentage of their income than in most other countries.

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That is not true.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

It is true.

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Nineteen per cent-----

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

The threshold whereby people get taxed at the highest rate of tax in Ireland is much lower than it is in most other countries.

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Eighty one per cent-----

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

If we look at what we have just done in the most recent budget and in previous budgets, our priority has not been on tax cuts. The priority has been on increasing public expenditure, improving public services and supporting people who need the support of the State in multiple sectors that have not had the type of investment needed through a recessionary period. Expenditure versus tax cuts has been provided on a ratio of 2:1 repeatedly in budget after budget.

I do not accept that Ireland is a low-tax economy. The Government must always try to get the balance right between incentivising business growth, innovation and employment and incentives to work and progress through the workforce with the responsibilities of the State to have a fair and equitable tax policy. Independent reports on Ireland's tax policy from the OECD and others show that the country is seen internationally as having a very progressive tax policy in terms of the redistribution of wealth. We should be proud of that.

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What we have just heard is simply propaganda for the rich and powerful. It is an excuse to allow the rich and powerful - people who have massive incomes and assets - pay little or no taxation and certainly not their fair share. The budget was for the super-rich. It was unequal. For example, 1.8 million workers are on incomes of less than €30,000. That is 40% of the workforce, and they got no relief in the budget. The vast majority of the €356 million for tax relief in the budget went to people with significant incomes, certainly well in excess of €100,000. Allowing the rich and powerful to avoid paying their fair share of taxation is simply not compatible with providing decent, modern public services. That is why we have a housing emergency, 10,000 people homeless, 780,000 people living below the poverty line, 70,000 children growing up in poverty and why the Society of St. Vincent de Paul received 137,000 calls last year and paid €27 million to needy families.

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The Deputy must conclude. His time is up.

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It is the Government's duty to ensure that there is equity in taxation and that the wealthy are made to pay their fair share.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I agree with the Deputy on one thing, that the wealthy should pay their fair share.

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They are not doing so and the Government is allowing that to happen.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Perhaps the Deputy will listen to the facts rather than trying to redesign them. The top 10% of earners in Ireland pay 61% of personal tax.

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That is income tax.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Yes.

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What about wealth tax or asset tax?

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

The Deputy is proposing that we start taxing people's assets. He might ask the farmers in his constituency how they would respond to that suggestion.

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People with €50 million in assets are paying less than those who are on the average industrial wage.

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Please, Deputy Healy.

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The Tánaiste has not even mentioned that.

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Deputy Healy should resume his seat.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

We have a property tax that was based on the value of properties-----

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It is outrageous.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Perhaps the Deputy will consider whether he voted for that at the time, because I do not recall that he did. It was taxing the value of people's assets.

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It was people's homes, not assets.

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It is shameful.

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Simon Coveney The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Is that not an asset now? We are trying to ensure that Ireland has a progressive tax system which encourages employment and encourages people to create wealth for themselves through working hard. People should not be punished for that. The system ensures that companies and individuals pay a fair share of tax. In terms of personal tax, the fact that the 10% of highest earners in Ireland are paying 61% of the overall personal tax bill speaks for itself.

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