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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Mortgage arrears and evictions

Summary

Deputy Mattie McGrath cited mortgage arrears statistics, condemned violence from any source, and linked the figures to the Roscommon eviction. The Taoiseach responded that arrears were falling and supported extending regulation to private security firms, while also pointing to debt-resolution supports such as Abhaile.

I do not condone violence from any source.

The Central Bank's residential mortgage arrears and repossession statistics for the second quarter of 2018 show that accounts in arrears for more than 700 days now constitute 42% of all accounts in arrears.

At €2.5 billion, they represent 91% of outstanding arrears balances. Non-bank entities now hold 61,446 mortgage accounts for principal dwelling houses and buy-to-lets combined. Of this number, 47,820 relate to principal dwelling house mortgage accounts.

These numbers provide us with some important context for the sad events that unfolded in Roscommon last week. Video of the event shows two elderly brothers and their sister being violently dragged against their will from the only home they have had for 64 years by private security agents all the way from Craigavon in County Armagh. Much has been made of the physical violence surrounding the event but remarkably little has been heard about the financial and emotional violence heaped on the tens of thousands of families right across the State by both the banks and the so-called vulture funds. They have the terrorised the old and infirm not with baseball bats but with bailiffs and sheriffs. The registrar and county sheriff system have too often been allowed to act with impunity, inflicting misery on ordinary people and families in mortgage distress. Private investment funds have launched their attacks through the letter box, with menacing and demanding letters and late-night phone calls. They have driven fathers to suicide and left children devastated by loss on many occasions. I am aware of many examples and I am sure the Taoiseach is too. These investment funds have imprisoned mothers who have tried to stand up to them in the courts despite having no legal representation.

Is this not a violent assault equal in gravity and distress with the events of last week? It is. Only last week I had to write to Start Mortgages after representations were made to me on behalf of an elderly couple in County Laois. Start Mortgages is pursuing the couple despite being notified through medical certs and otherwise that the husband is suffering from a terminal illness and is wheelchair-bound, and despite their attempts to engage constructively to repay the debt. There has been no meaningful engagement from Start Mortgages.

Every day of the year, families are being hounded or terrorised by debt collection practices in the State. These can only be described as vicious, cruel and inhumane. They are being supported by a hands-off approach that gives a de facto blessing and the guise of legality because gardaí stand idly by. I am not blaming those gardaí. Courts are handing out court orders with no indication of how these orders should be enforced. They must change or otherwise we are simply giving a blank cheque to these firms to act in any way that they see fit with the blessings of the court backing them. A third force is meanwhile coming in from Northern Ireland. I call on the Taoiseach to take action and do what Deputy John McGuinness's committee recommended, which is to give powers of compellability and allow committees to bring these people before them at least.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I acknowledge that the Deputy raised a sensitive matter in a very appropriate and reasonable manner. I recognise that he has put on the record his condemnation of violence from any source, as I do.

It is important to acknowledge that mortgage arrears are going down in Ireland. Five or six years ago there were hundreds of thousands of people out of work and unable to pay their mortgages, leaving those mortgages in arrears. As the economy has recovered and more people are back at work, and as incomes are rising again, mortgage arrears are decreasing. A corps of people nonetheless may never be able to repay what they owe, and those people need our help. We have put in place systems to help them, specifically the Abhaile scheme through which people can get legal and financial advice to help them restructure their debts. There are 116,000 mortgages in Ireland that have been restructured and 87% of those loans are performing or being repaid. There is help there and the 116,000 families in Ireland that have had their mortgages restructured are proof of that.

We can take the mortgage-to-rent scheme, where a party may give up a home but remain in it. A person who cannot pay a mortgage would surrender the property to the lender but he or she may stay in it and pay rent. There are now 424 families who have retained a home by being willing to give it up but to rent it thereafter. The 116,000 people who have had their mortgages restructured and the 424 families who have signed up for the mortgage-to-rent scheme are a much greater number than the number of eviction orders being executed.

The number of such orders being executed is actually going down. It was 400 last year and the previous year while it was 900 the year before that. Courts hear both sides of the story and rarely issue a repossession or execution order unless there is good cause and other avenues have been exhausted. I would say to people that if they genuinely cannot pay back their debts, they should seek the assistance that is available. Many people have done that and have been able to either settle their debts to their satisfaction and stay in their homes or have their loans restructured.

Comment on this

I am surprised by the Taoiseach's reply. While meaningful efforts are being made in many cases, there are many cases - we all know of them - involving business people, farmers and family home owners who are trying their best to deal with the banks but the banks will not entertain them and drag out the process forever. We must send a clear message to the people who carry out these violent evictions with cruelty and impunity. They are a third force and should not be in this State. We are a sovereign state and have An Garda Síochána and the Army, who serve us well. Nobody condones violence from any source and I certainly do not condone it, but the fact remains that people are being driven to the brink day in and day out by the menacing behaviour and lack of engagement from the banks. They see a different person in the bank every time they visit it. What happened in Roscommon was people were responding to enormous desperation and the perception that all the powers of the State and the courts are doing nothing to shield them from the brutal regime of evictions. The Taoiseach said that the courts do not issue repossession and eviction orders lightly. I hope so but laypersons cannot represent themselves in court. They are intimidated, bullied and treated very badly. Above all, we do not want a third force from Northern Ireland or even from here. I raised this issue with the Government in 2015 when it happened in Carlow and I have raised it umpteen times with the Taoiseach. Will the Government change the legislation to ensure that these people are sent back to where they belong and back to their former paramilitary past if that is what they want?

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I ask the Deputy to conclude his remarks.

Comment on this

Let the people of Ireland deal with this honestly and repay as best they can. The issue of evictions is very emotive.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy cannot continue to ignore the Chair.

Comment on this

I want the Taoiseach to take action.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy cannot continue to ignore the Chair.

Comment on this

I have spoken much less than other speakers.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I will decide that.

Comment on this

I accept we are a minute and a half over-----

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I will decide that, not the Deputy.

Comment on this

I am way under the time.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I have been more than fair.

Comment on this

I can see the clock. The Taoiseach has to act.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy must have respect for the Chair.

Comment on this

Look at the clock. What about other parties? They can be two minutes over time.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I will deal with other parties.

Comment on this

You do not do that.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Is the Deputy making an allegation?

Comment on this

You did not do it today.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I ask the Deputy to withdraw the allegation that I am giving-----

Comment on this

We discuss this every day in the Business Committee.

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I ask the Deputy to take his seat and to withdraw the remark concerning favouritism.

Comment on this

Unless the clock is wrong-----

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I ask him to withdraw it.

Comment on this

I did not say the word "favouritism".

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I am giving a synopsis of what the Deputy said. If he feels I am doing that, I suggest he deals with it in the appropriate way.

Comment on this

Can we go back to-----

Comment on this
Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I will deal with it in my way and the Deputy can deal with it in his way.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I agree, in light of the events we have seen in recent weeks, that we need to extend regulation to these private security firms. It is already the case that a doorman or somebody fitting an alarm needs to be registered and is regulated. I agree that we need to extend regulation to these private security firms to make sure they act in accordance with the law. There are options for people who genuinely cannot pay their debts and the money they owe. The Abhaile service offers free legal and financial advice and there are court mentors available who will go into the courts with people and assist them. The proof of that can be seen in the 116,000 individuals and their families in this State who have had their mortgages restructured. Almost 90% of those are able to pay their bills. That is the right way to go and that is what I would encourage people to do.

Comment on this