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Dáil
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

National Children's Hospital and carers referendum

Summary

Mattie McGrath used his slot first to criticise the national children’s hospital project, which the Taoiseach defended as already under construction and progressing in phases. Eamon Ryan then asked about the timeline and consultation for a referendum on Article 41.2 to recognise carers, and the Minister for Justice said proposals would go to Government within two weeks.

Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

We are now going to the Rural Independent Group.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputies, you might not like what you have heard, but the Taoiseach has answered.

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What the Taoiseach has said is factually incorrect.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Mattie McGrath is next.

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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, can we ask him if he is going to instruct the HSE to recognise this union or not?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Is it not remarkable how so many Deputies can ask a question but they will not permit an answer?

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Taoiseach has answered. I have no control over the Taoiseach's answers. Deputy Mattie McGrath is next.

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The Taoiseach is refusing to answer. This is the State, not a private employer.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I have no control over the Taoiseach.

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It was not chosen as a Topical Issue matter.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Mattie McGrath is next. I have no control. You will have to find another means, Deputy.

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Can we hear the answer? The Taoiseach has said he wants to answer.

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A Leas Cheann Comhairle, this is outrageous. The same thing happened last week.

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We put this in as a Topical Issue matter but it was not chosen.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Resume your seat, Deputy Coppinger.

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Ambulances are not working but it has not been chosen as a Topical Issue matter.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I have no control over the Taoiseach's answers. That is the precedent.

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The Taoiseach has said he wants to answer.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, you will have to find another way.

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A total of five Members have put the question. The Taoiseach should respond and show some respect.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Cullinane, you are here long enough to know that I have no control.

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On a point of order, the Taoiseach was interrupted because of the non-factual and inaccurate information given on the floor of the House and he was corrected by Deputy O'Reilly.

The Taoiseach should answer the question. When will he take a personal interest in this issue and lift the fear among patients throughout the country about this strike?

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

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Will the Leas-Cheann Comhairle please let the Taoiseach answer? Will he give him 30 seconds to answer?

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I ask Deputy Coppinger to accept that I have no control over the Taoiseach's response.

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There are no ambulances. Does the Taoiseach not believe this is important?

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The Army is being called in and the Taoiseach is holding up his hands.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I am not depriving him of an answer.

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Will the Leas-Cheann Comhairle please offer the Taoiseach a chance to respond?

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

If I am allowed, I will reply.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I will give the Taoiseach that opportunity. I am limiting him to one minute.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. First, there are ambulances. The majority of paramedics and ambulance staff in the National Ambulance Service are working today. They are represented by three unions which are recognised by the HSE, namely, SIPTU, Unite, and Fórsa. Anyone is free to join a breakaway union if they wish but there is no requirement that a public or private sector employer must collect those union dues. Unions may collect dues themselves-----

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The issue is not about dues.

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It is about union recognition. That is staggering.

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Let the Taoiseach finish.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is not a requirement that employers must recognise every union of which someone is a member. The employer already recognises three unions, namely, Unite, SIPTU and Fórsa.

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The Taoiseach has said all that already.

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The Taoiseach just said that.

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The Taoiseach has not given any additional information.

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Therefore the Government is deciding not to recognise the union. This is what the State is choosing.

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The workers are being denied their constitutional rights.

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This is outrageous.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I have given all the Deputies an opportunity. I cannot be responsible for the Taoiseach's response.

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The Taoiseach did not answer my question.

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They want their own Dáil.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

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I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. It is no wonder that the Government does not have the funds to pay the ambulance drivers or the nurses. In 2017, the Rural Independent Group and I put a motion before the Dáil relating to the site for the national children's hospital. We listened to Connolly for Kids, Dr. Finn Breathnach, Jonathan Irwin of the Jack and Jill Foundation, and Dr. Róisín Healy. It was magnificent. These people pointed out clearly to everyone here, not only to us, that the hospital was to be built on the wrong site, that it could not be delivered because of access and that there was no helipad. They gave a plethora of reasons. Is the Government going to persist with this total waste of money? Why not abandon the project which is not out of the ground yet, but go out instead to a greenfield site in Blanchardstown which the Government could have had for nothing, which is accessible to all the people of rural Ireland and to helicopters and so on?

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Taoiseach will answer.

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This is a farce. It is draining dry all the other projects in the HSE.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Okay.

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Where is the accountability 100 years on? There is no accountability.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy should finish.

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We were warned, yet of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin or the Labour Party, not one of them backed us.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Taoiseach to respond.

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All the facts and figures were there to say that it could not be built.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Taoiseach shall endeavour to answer. The Deputy should remember that there are other Deputies coming behind him.

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I do remember.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It can and will be delivered. It is already under construction. The outpatient and urgent care centre in Blanchardstown is almost finished.

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There is no co-location.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Construction in Tallaght will begin in the next couple of months.

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It is all poppycock.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, please.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It was never in contention that it would be cheaper to build on a greenfield site. A decision was taken to trilocate, to locate it with a major adult hospital-----

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It is a rotten decision.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy, please.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----an academic research centre and the National Maternity Hospital. It was never in contention that it would be cheaper to locate it on a greenfield site.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The last of the group leaders is Deputy Eamon Ryan.

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I am very interested to know the Government's intention regarding a referendum on Article 41.2 of the Constitution following the joint committee recommendations that there be a proper public consultation on how we give real recognition to carers in our home. What is the Government's timeline? What consultation mechanism does it intend to use? What is its plan for a referendum and legislation?

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Charles Flanagan Minister for Justice and Equality Fine Gael

It is under consideration in accordance with the Government's programme for several referendums. I expect to bring a memorandum to Government with firm proposals within the next two weeks.

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Pat the Cope Gallagher An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

I now revert to the list of Deputies from last Thursday, the first of whom was Deputy Danny Healy-Rae. He is very well aware of questions on the Order of Business, so let us be precise.

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