Mother and baby homes commission delay
Deputy Clare Daly criticised the long delay in the mother and baby homes commission’s final report and questioned the Taoiseach on its progress. The Taoiseach said the commission was independent, that interviews and records work were not yet complete, and that the Minister had raised concerns about the delay.
Yesterday the Taoiseach got away with telling us that the mother and baby home commission needed time to finish its work. On the surface, that sounds reasonable enough. The problem is the commission does not deal with the issue of the time it has already had. It was set up to do a job in three years, but what we have after its four years of work is four interim reports, in the first of which it looked for a time extension. In the second it told us why it had asked for a time extension in the first report. Incidentally, its publication was delayed for eight months by the Minister because it also stated Bethany Home survivors should never have been excluded from the redress scheme, which issue has still not been addressed. In the third interim report which devastated the survivor community, the commission looked for an extra year just before it should have concluded. Now, at the eleventh hour, in another report it is looking for another year. Is this a joke? Do Members honestly think it is acceptable that we should wring our hands for a little while, offer a bit of sympathy to the survivors and then move on to the next issue? I am not blaming the Taoiseach for this, but he is the one in power who could sort it out. We need to know why the commission has not completed its work and who will be held to account.
The report talks about there being a considerable workload to cross-reference documents. It also talks about delays in obtaining evidence from the authorities which ran the institutions which could not be examined until the commission had finished the examination of the documents. Why has this not been done? Is it a question of resources? If so, why did it not flag it before now? If it is a question of non-co-operation, why did it not highlight it before now? Why did it only receive the first tranche of documents over two years after it had been set up? Did it not ask for them? Was it obstructed in getting them? Why did a commission set up by the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and reliant on information from that Department and the Department of Health, in its words, to produce a "comprehensive" and "accurate" report only receive information recently, a year after its business should have been concluded?
The commission talks about being dismayed that so little information had been kept by the HSE. It finds it difficult to understand why relatively recent documents are not available. It does not understand why the HSE does not have any system for archiving material. Does the Taoiseach understand it? What has he done about it? Let us remember this is the same HSE which two years before in 2012 had produced a report on the 500 baby deaths at Bessborough. It beggars belief. These are fundamental issues, but there are so many more. How come the commission can come in within budget? How come it is not costing any more money in continuing for two extra years? Will it not pay for remaining an extra two years in its Baggot Street offices? Will it not pay salaries? Did we get it wrong the first time? These are fundamental questions, but there are so many more. The only conclusion one can draw is either the commission is grossly incompetent or it is being deliberately misled. My question to the Taoiseach is which is it. Is allowing the commission to continue without scrutinising these matters in the interests of the people whom on Monday the Taoiseach so accurately and articulately stated had been betrayed by the State?
Comment on this
I very much share the distress and disappointment of former residents of the mother and baby homes that we do not yet have a final report from the commission which we should not forget was established by the Oireachtas. None of us believed at the time that it would take as long as it has for the commission to do its work and issue its report. The commission is independent. The whole point in having a commission of investigation is that it is independent of government. It is not a creature of government. Therefore, I cannot answer questions on its behalf. If I was able to interfere in the work of a commission and answer questions on its behalf, it would not be independent and would defeat the purpose in having such a commission of investigation.
The commission has informed us that it has more work to do. So far it has interviewed 519 former residents. It wants to interview more and everyone to have his or her opportunity to be interviewed and his or her story heard. It has received new material which needs to be considered and a mass of documents - I am informed over 100,000 documents - all of which need to be considered properly. It tells us that it has adequate resources and that, notwithstanding the delay, will come in on budget. It has not requested additional resources, but should such a request be brought forward, it will be considered.
It is not the case that we must wait another year before anything happens. We will receive a comprehensive report on the burials. It is scheduled to be presented in March. It will give us more information on the burial grounds.
We have already taken a decision as a Government, a few months ago, that investigations will be carried out at Tuam, with a view to identifying, if possible, the remains of some of the children buried there to give them the appropriate burial they should have had when they died. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, working through the consultative forum, is drawing up proposals for how we might do something to assist and support the health and well-being of former residents while we await the final report.
Comment on this
The information the Taoiseach has given the House is inaccurate. How does he know that the commission will carry out its work now? He has referred to other interviews that need to take place and extra documentation received. Does he not know that the report published yesterday referred to the interviews being concluded this month? Can he tell me if they have been concluded? The commission stated it had been expecting 277 files to be delivered in December. Were they delivered? Does the Taoiseach know? If he does not, why does he not? I do not expect him to be on top of every detail, but there is a considerable problem in this House where we set up commissions of investigation in response to appalling scandals and horrific abuses perpetuated on people in that we let them carry on and ask for extra time. The Taoiseach does not pose or answer any of the valid questions I have raised about the reasons for the delay. It is not acceptable. It is a feature of Irish political life, for the Opposition and the media, that nobody follows them through.
Last May, the Taoiseach told me that in response to the CervicalCheck scandal and the lack of action on mandatory disclosure the Government would progress and implement a patient safety Bill. That was not seen through and has been forgotten. In response to the Grace scandal, the Government set up the Farrelly commission. Everybody forgot about it and the time to finalise its report has been extended. The Government must see these issues through. I ask the Taoiseach to answer the questions he was asked about why this commission has not done the job it was supposed to do. Is it being obstructed or is it just incompetent? There is no other explanation, although the Taoiseach may invent one.
Comment on this
The information I have is that the interviews are not yet concluded. There are 26 or more yet to be carried out.
Comment on this
The interim report published in December stated that the interviews would be concluded by now.
Comment on this
My information note is dated 22 January. Although it may be out of date, the information I have is that the interviews have not yet concluded. The information I have is that the discovery of records is complete and the files have been delivered, although that does not preclude the possibility that further records may be found, as happens on occasion, particularly with historical records. The Minister, Deputy Zappone, has met Judge Murphy to raise her concerns and those of the Government regarding the delay.