Children's hospital accountability
Deputies repeatedly pressed for more scrutiny and further questions on the national children's hospital overruns, citing new memorandums and minutes. The Taoiseach said the matter had already been extensively examined in committees and the House, and urged Members to ask only new questions.
I ask that the Business Committee reconvene to consider the need for accountability on the national children's hospital. A series of memorandums has been sent to the Opposition. We have received 23 memorandums since the questions were asked of the children's hospital project and programme steering group. There are memorandums from September, October and November and more memorandums from the Government. We have the Department of Health report on Department of Public Expenditure and Reform communications in October and November 2018, summary of timeline of escalation of costs, and the AECOM cost benchmarking report. We have received much substantive documentation since the questions last week so there should be an opportunity for spokespersons to question the Minister for Health in the House on the content of these memorandums. I am open to that being considered for today, Wednesday or Thursday given the importance of accountability. As the Taoiseach said, lessons must be learned from this debacle.
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There is undoubtedly a need for more scrutiny of the Minister's understanding, and that of other Ministers, on this and time should be available for more detailed questions. My understanding of Standing Order 46 is that it must be a personal statement and that it should not give rise to debate or be argumentative. Clearly, what the Minister has put on the record is disputed. All the information he had at that time was not commercially sensitive. We know that from the minutes. We are not eejits. We had to ask for the minutes and we have seen from them that at that point in August he was aware that there was a crystallisation of a €191 million overspend-----
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-----yet the Minister came to the House and made a very feeble apology. He is still trying to suggest that he could not give the information because it was somehow commercially sensitive, as a way to draw a line under this and probably in some cobbled up arrangement with Fianna Fáil to get him over this issue. However, this goes to the heart of accountability. I would have preferred to have had statements after the Minister's contribution, as happened when Deputy Naughten made his statement, but that has not been facilitated. We urgently need space to quiz the Minister on his knowledge, particularly on some of the content he put before the Dáil, which is disputed and which is not allowed under the Standing Order under which he asked to make his personal statement.
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It is obvious that the Minister made a political statement. It was not just a personal apology. The Members of the House must be given an opportunity to question him in detail about these costs. The nation is aghast that there is no money for nurses but suddenly the purse strings can be opened endlessly for this project. Time should be allocated during which we can interrogate him further on what he said.
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I am sure the Business Committee can discuss the matter but the Minister, Deputy Harris, has no problem answering questions. He likes to answer questions.
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There have been four committee hearings on this matter. Members of the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, NPHDB, have appeared before the Joint Committee on Health. The Minister and the Secretary General of the Department have also appeared before that committee.
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More documentation has issued since then.
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Representatives of the NPHDB, the Department of Health and the HSE have appeared before the Committee of Public Accounts-----
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More documentation being issued gives rise to more documentation.
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-----and the Minister for Health and the Secretary General of the Department of Health have appeared before the Joint Committee on Health for their quarterly session. The Minister has spent nine hours answering questions on this matter-----
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Not once did he raise his knowledge in all of that.
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-----so I suggest that if there is to be a further set of questions, Members should read the questions and answers that have already occurred and only ask new questions.
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I acknowledge that the Minister, Deputy Harris, spent several hours dealing with the matter in the House last week. However, we have received a significant amount of documentation since then. I have the list here. We have received 23 memorandums containing new information from the children's hospital project and programme steering group, the AECOM cost benchmarking report, the Departments of Health and Public Expenditure and Reform communications for October and November 2018 and the summary timeline of the escalation of costs. It is reasonable to seek more accountability because lessons must be learned in regard to this debacle.
I have taken a constructive approach to the matter. I often compare the approach taken by Sinn Féin to that seen in Clint Eastwood films of long ago: when the cowboy arrived into town, the first thing he did was to reach for his holster. Sinn Féin's first instinct following a controversy of this kind is to reach for a Private Members' motion of no confidence.
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Fianna Fáil would rather sit on its hands.
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It is clear that Deputy Micheál Martin is finding it difficult to come up with new excuses for not supporting Sinn Féin's motion of no confidence-----