I welcome the men and women from the National Ambulance Service who are here in such large numbers that they could not all fit into the Public Gallery and who are interested in hearing the Taoiseach's answer to my question.

Late last year, the HSE commissioned a polling company to conduct a nationwide survey of HSE staff. One of the questions was as follows: "My organisation clearly demonstrates its interest in staff health and wellbeing." For the HSE as a whole, the percentage who agreed with that statement was 42%, which is not great. The figure for the National Ambulance Service staff was 11%. Some 37% of HSE staff were satisfied with their pay levels. The figure for National Ambulance Service personnel was 6%. That is the legacy of the Government's austerity pay cuts. Some 69% of National Ambulance Service personnel had experienced bullying, harassment or both in the previous two years.

These are key workers, they do a stressful job and they work long hours. Many people call them ambulance drivers but they are a lot more than that. They are paramedics, advanced paramedics and emergency medical technicians. They are lifesavers and they deserve to be treated with respect, but they are not being treated with respect by the HSE and the National Ambulance Service. The HSE refused to negotiate with the union chosen by more than 500 of these workers to represent them. The National Ambulance Service Representative Association, NASRA, is part of the Psychiatric Nurses Association, PNA. The PNA has thousands of members in the health service and a full negotiating licence, but so stubborn are the HSE and the National Ambulance Service in their stance, that they refuse even to sit down with the NASRA representatives to negotiate contingency plans for public safety on the days the workers' strike. The National Ambulance Service phoned its solicitors, those solicitors phoned the union's solicitors, the union's solicitors phoned the union and the union phoned the picket line and then the whole matter was put into reverse. It would be laughable if it was not for the fact that this ignorant management approach to industrial relations is compromising the health and safety of the public.

The first national ambulance strike in the history of the State is taking place on the Taoiseach's watch. On 12 March, the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, told the Dáil he was confident the dispute could be resolved, but has his Department even sat down with the HSE to discuss resolving it since then? The Taoiseach might tell the Dáil. The men and women in the Gallery will be joined by colleagues outside the gates of the Dáil at 2.30 p.m. to demand their democratic right to be represented by the union of their choice. On 2 April, next Tuesday, they are due to strike again and on 10 April, they will strike again if the matter is not resolved. The Taoiseach should resolve it before 2 April. Is the Taoiseach prepared to take the necessary measures? Is he prepared to instruct the Department to sit down with the HSE before 2 April, instructing it to recognise this union and to resolve this dispute?

The Government is very committed to continuing to improve, expand and develop our National Ambulance Service. We have increased the budget for the National Ambulance Service every year for four years running. That money goes towards several objectives. It goes towards pay restoration, pay increases, extra staff, new ambulances, improving our existing ambulance bases and introducing new technology ranging from Eircodes to onboard equipment. We have seen a big improvement in our ambulance services over recent years, particularly as staff have been upskilled and as we have more paramedics and advanced paramedics providing emergency healthcare the moment they arrive at the scene, thus providing emergency interventions immediately, long before the patient gets to the hospital and that is the way to go. There will be many more improvements in that regard into the future.

What the Deputy refers to is of course an industrial relations dispute. It is principally an inter-union dispute. There are a number of unions which represent the majority of ambulance staff, paramedics and others which are already recognised. SIPTU is certainly the main union, Fórsa is the other union and there may be a third union and this is an inter-union dispute. We know from so many other workplaces that it is much better to have staff represented by one union or maybe two, rather than having six, seven or eight unions competing with each other as much as trying to negotiate better terms and conditions for their staff. We have seen that in so many other fields where disputes would have been resolved much quicker to the benefit of everyone had there been only one union or two, rather than six or seven competing with each other and taking members off each other rather than engaging in the work that they should be doing, which is advancing the interests of their members.

This is an industrial relations dispute. It will be resolved in the normal way and as is always the case with industrial relations disputes, there will not be interference from Ministers.

It is up to the workers to decide which union they choose to represent them. It is not up to the Taoiseach, the Minister for Health or the HSE. This is not an inter-union dispute. There are plenty of sections of the public sector where the State recognises four trade unions, not the six, seven or eight that the Taoiseach attempted to distort the facts with. There are plenty of places where four unions are recognised. I am sure the Taoiseach is aware of the fact that two of the three unions involved, namely Fórsa and Unite the Union, have less membership combined than NASRA and the PNA. In fact, their combined membership does not even come close to the combined membership of NASRA and the PNA. The rank and file members of the biggest union, SIPTU, support the right of this union to be recognised, as shown by the fact that they have stood on the picket lines.

It is an excuse. The real reason is that the Government does not want the HSE to recognise a union which would not accept and which would challenge and fight the Government's understaffing and underpaying of ambulance personnel and the overstretched and overworked workforce. The trade union movement must not allow these workers to stand alone. The PNA has 6,000 members in the health service and there must be active solidarity with these workers if they continue to be denied their democratic right to have a union recognised.

Is the Taoiseach prepared to try to stop the strike on 2 April by doing a simple thing, namely asking the HSE to sit down and talk to the representatives of the union chosen by more than 500 of these workers?

Any worker, employee or member of staff is free to join any union they wish to join. There is no argument or dispute about that matter. I understand that part of this dispute relates to the fact that the HSE is not willing to deduct union dues at source from the salaries of staff-----

They used to, they just stopped.

-----and that is a different matter entirely. Any employer, whether it is a public sector employer or private sector employer, should not be forced by law or required to deduct union dues from people's pay-----

Why?

It is up to people if they want to pay those dues-----

Why did it do it before?

It does it for other unions.

-----and that should be a matter for them. As I say, this is an industrial relations dispute-----

It does it for all unions.

-----and will be resolved in the normal way. It will not involve an intervention from the Minister.

That is a shameful response.